Communication Requested from NI - Warning on select Kontakt Libraries that ran on K6

Vocalpoint

ATTN NI (Jeremy/Rich etc)

Noticed that NI is cranking out the Kontakt 7.6.x updates fast and furious to coincide with the release of the new Mark III series of hardware coming soon. Today (in Native Access 2) I see updates for Electric Mint, Electric Sunburst Deluxe, Hypha and Kontakt Factory Library 2

Now - if a user is already on K7.x.x and are fully intent on moving forward - it's all good.

However, if a user has NOT yet moved to K7 and is still on K6 (for many valid reasons) - they are quickly (and painfully) discovering that IF they jump the gun in Native Access 2 and update specific libraries (Electric Mint and Electric Sunburst are top of mind) that were originally designed for (and first offered) to run against Kontakt 6 - they are suddenly locked out with a message that states:

"Your version of Kontakt is too old to load this file".

Thus, leaving them with no way to access that library and then forces them (if they want to continue using the library) to move to Kontakt 7 - when they may not be ready to or may simply not want to.

I know the "Release Notes" clearly state that performing these updates WILL require the library to be used ONLY under K7.6.x for the future - however - those release notes and their location is obscure and not well communicated.

Support has yet to find a solution and I want to know if NI will issue a proper "statement" on this before many folks get burned by something that is unknown until they see that message onscreen.

Cheers

VP

Lladnar

Yeah, the libraries say in the patch notes AFTER we update that they now require version 7.6. NI can't lock someone out of using the very software they had originally purchased as a host for other software. If there's some need for the new hardware to require 7.6 then NI needs to provide the ability to run both versions with a secondary nki. Basically, it ran on 6, I own 6 & 7, it should run on both and future versions.

Projects in DAWs will no longer load properly and the only fix is to replace the Kontakt 6 instances in the project with 7.6 ones, and having to rebuild the instrument or multis from scratch including all the edits that took place only in the project. I expect this to have a huge backlash as more users realize what's going on when their projects don't work, especially those in the professional sector that have deadlines and broken projects.

Not to mention the fact that 7.6 has serious engine issues as I've experienced personally with some patches in a Silence+Other Sounds library that I reported to the author, and have heard that some users are having performance issues with Cremona Quartet (which is now 7.6 only) and Pharlight. With the sheer number of libraries I own from various vendors, I'm very reluctant to move to Kontakt 7 not knowing if playing a single note in some instruments might cause an insane spike for no good reason on a top-tier audio workstation.

Kymeia

I support this - please add your support to keep this topic bumped to the top till NI respond

It's not good enough to expect people who paid for the full product to just use Player 7

At least provide a link to the previous versions

Jojo123

Yep I got caught out with Picked Accoustic. I agree its not communicated well enough. I KNEW this was an issue but because Picked Accoustic had a big update I missed the minimum K requirement.

So, I support this thread as well. C'mon NI PLEASE supply legit paid up customers with accessible installers so they can carry on work in cases like these. Ive already experienced what it means to have to wait days to be supplied an earlier installer because support was slow in coming and incidentally Im still waiting months and months later still on that same KK installer waiting for support to get back about the unresolved issue.

This request for installers comes up a lot and I just don't see why people should have to beg and wait for previous installers and be inconvenienced like this.

Volske

Same issue for me. I did a clean install of all my products after building a new PC, and now I'm unable to use a bunch of my software because I'm still on Kontakt 6. I tried Noire, I mean I might upgrade to 7 eventually, but until I decide on it, it's incredibly annoying to have several products not work.

Permutare

This has impacted me too. NI Access should never have offered me the update as it's not applicable to me. Feels like I'm being forced into upgrading and paying the price. If I don't, I'm locked out of existing projects and I also no longer can use my regular plugins. This is really disappointing and definitely not the right way to encourage me to upgrade.

Permutare

NI support have replied to my ticket this morning and they've provided me with details for downloading the previous version of the instruments affected and assurance it isn't necessary to pay for Kontakt 7. If you are affected by this, make sure you log it with NI.

Kymeia

Jeremy has kindly responded with the announcement requested and links to previous versions

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17039/previous-versions-of-recently-updated-kontakt-libraries-compatibility-with-k6-older-libraries

I do think though there is a more fundamental issue, which is that NA needs to be smarter about what updates it offers, depending on what the person has, warn users of potentially compatibility breaking installs, and have a hide function for stuff the user may want to exclude from being updated by ‘update all’

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/96821#Comment_96821

What NI really needs to do is threefold

1. Rewrite the Native Access logic to recognize when a user is heading into trouble in the first place (AKA Do not even offer any 7.x updates to ANY Kontakt library if v7 is not even installed or purchased) And NO - nobody wants Kontakt Player 7 on their machine at all if K6 is their go-to. Do not even suggest it.
2. Update our NI Accts - with permalinks to ALL installers for anything we have ever purchased - new, old or otherwise. At least then a user has a way back when this kind of stuff happens.
3. Make every Kontakt update 100% backward compatible with the current (v6 and V7) supported versions of Kontakt.

The major issue I have with this situation (and I am not even affected by this) is the extreme assumption on NIs part - that every Kontakt user on the planet is using Kontakt 7.

This is unbelievable - and I am totally stunned no one over there thought this through before starting these Mark III rollouts.

VP

Kymeia

Absolutely agree on the first 2 points but much as 3 sounds good in principle I don’t see how it would be possible if you want to take advantage of new hardware interfaces that K6 just doesn’t support (and making it do so would essentially turn it into K7 anyway) - I just think that would be too much of a hard limit on innovation

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/96847#Comment_96847

Agreed - it would require too much actual thinking on NIs part to make this a reality. Yet other companies seem to do it with no issues.

But let's be honest - the file payloads of these so called "7.6 MK3" updates are tiny in size (36MB, 43 MB etc). These updates are not fundamentally changing too much to an original v6 library structure - just most likely adding a few extra support files, metadata xmls etc - in order for the library to load and be displayed correctly on the new hardware.

There is NO reason that Kontakt 6 should not be able to simply ignore these new files and carry on like it always has. And a K7.6.x instance of course - will make use of them when MK3 hardware is in play.

The more I see this kind of stuff happening - the more I keep thinking that NI actually wrote this in such a way as to force people to "think" they need to move to K7 (The phrase "your version of Kontakt is too old" - is a dead giveaway) rather than leaving the K6 crowd alone until such time they made up their own minds.

VP

Jojo123

@Jeremy_NI thankyou for that list!

@Vocalpoint Agree on those 3 points absolutely.

Look at it this way too... think of all the desperate posts that wouldn't happen if people could get work done in the meantime, because they have access to the previous installers. I as well as many others have conssitently asked for these installers to be accessible, of course to legit users. Moreover, software that is relatively recent shouldn't force you into an upgrade when it was sold to work with an earlier version.

Im thinking right now of the scenario that K13 UCE owners would face if they need a total re-install coz computer died or whatever. Earlier versions just need to be available, period.

JesterMgee

Registered users (and be that paying customers) should have access to a repository of older versions of ALL software for various reasons.

I have always found this a very sour point with NI software since the Native Access app was released that in the event you update something and find there is some issue or a compatibility problem and you need to revert back it's a painful process since you have to try pester a mod to get a resolution which only works during the usual business times and not on holidays.

Almost all other software I use has easy accessibility to several older versions for this reason because believe it or not, some people work as professionals needing to maintain up time and I can imagine a simple slip of an update before a holiday break would be a painful time for someone that had a heap of work to get through and now cannot load a plugin because they cannot roll back easily.

Back in the old days when it was all handled by service centre I would download and backup all the executables on my server so I had a catalogue of versions to roll back to but now it's almost impossible to do easily without trying to pause the installer in NA just after it has downloaded the files then locate them to backup.

I am another in this boat where I do not have the full Kontakt 7 and personally I prefer the layout of K6 and it does all I need, I have nothing I use that needs K7 at the moment, I just don't need to upgrade.

So +1 for this.

Jeremy_NI

We published a list of links for installers of previous Kontakt libraries: Previous versions of recently updated Kontakt libraries / compatibility with K6 older libraries

Please note that our support always has always given installers for older versions of products when requested. I understand that some people do not want to use Kontakt 7 but please keep in mind that all our libraries only require the free player so no one is pushing to buy Kontakt 7. If there are a lot of libraries updated, it was only to take advantage of the new features of the forthcoming keyboard.

It's also specified in the release notes of these libraries.

Permutare

It's fine having release notes for your library updates, but the point is that NI Access should not be telling users there's an update for their libraries when the update is not compatible with the version of Kontakt they own. The updates made available to users should reflect what they already own. If this were the case, this issue wouldn't have arisen. Other manufacturers work this way, surely NI can do it too.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/96947#Comment_96947

Jeremy

While you make it sound like K7 Player is some innocent install that "should" be able to sit quietly in the corner and not have any impact - the reality is quite different. I am continuously surprised how you (and the rest of NI) fail to realize OR simply do not understand what happens to a user workstation (with a previous version of Kontakt - like 6) at the mere hint of existence of a "new version".

If a user is 100% using K6 for everything - as soon as K7 "anything" appears - it completely takes over. It suddenly becomes the DEFAULT in Komplete Kontrol where K6 was the default just moments before installing K7 Player. It ruins existing projects in some cases. It causes Native Access to start displaying messages on specific updates indicating that K7 Player is now required. And so on.

Until NI can solve the major issues with having two versions of Kontakt on a machine (it remains a complete disaster right now) - recommending K7 Player to any K6 user - is pointless.

It does not work and the hassle factor to repair a workstation - as we can see right now with this nonsense that is occurring with these K7.6 library updates - is NOT worth any update to K7 Player IMHO.

VP