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Please make all UIs scalable



  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,486 Expert

    iZotope's main products all have scalable GUIs - have done for quite a while now

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,486 Expert
    edited July 2022

    Sounds like a Kontakt with scalable GUI is in the works from what's been said, hopefully Reaktor too. I guess the big problem with both those plugins is even if NI make a nice vector based scalable GUI for the plugins themselves, it will still require all libraries and ensembles created using bitmap graphics (ie pretty much all of them) to be updated for all instruments using those 2 plugins to also be scalable - which is a) a mammoth task and b) not entirely in NI's hands (due to there being tons of third party and user libraries and ensembles in circulation).

    I doubt we will see another major Massive update given Massive X is out - which does have scalable graphics

    I wish there was one on the cards for Absynth and FM8 but they seem to be abandoned products to me, which is a shame, although tbh I have Korg OPSix Native now and it's kindof what I would have wanted from a FM8 update anyway - and does have scalable graphics (and looks like a FM version of Massive X) - maybe Massive X will become what Pigments is for Arturia and they will keep adding additional synth engines to it including granular, additive and FM (which it already has to an extent)?

    Super 8 is a recent synth so I have no idea why NI chose not to make it scalable, although at least the graphics are nice and crisp on my 4K Retina iMac. Maybe because it was rushed out to test the VST3 conversions process more than anything? So hopefully it will get finished - needs a browser remake too

    NI are steadily adding HDPI support for their plugins, already have for their flagship synth, most of their more recent FX and Guitar Rig 6, so it is clearly not the case that they have been turning a blind eye to the needs of users. It's already happened with the 'easier' ones to make it happen with (ie new synth, newer fx, major GR revamp incorporating those scalable new fx) - for Kontakt and Reaktor it seems like it is happening now, but there are a huge amount of legacy libraries and ensembles using bitmaps. How they will deal with that remains to be seen but it is not a simple thing.

  • DynaMaltee
    DynaMaltee Member Posts: 8 Member
    edited July 2022

    +1 scalable UI for all products.

    The older NI plugins come from a time where 1024x768 was not too bad. I can imagine it takes much time and effort to come up with a feasable and economic solution for a scalable UI for older bitmap-based products.

    If it is a vecor-based UI, I personally don't prefer the plugins to turn into pure flat-design. I.m.o. too many plugin devs choose this style nowadays, because it is the easiest way to have scalable UI. I think it gets boring, uninspiring and makes plugins look the same all over the place.

    I like NIs nice newer designs with 3d-ish elements and interesting looks. Like for instance their newer scalable plugins Guitar Rig 6 (has great looking skeumorphic and scalable devices), MassiveX and effects like Dirt, Flair, etc.

    On the other hand there are scalable bitmap-based plugins like those from Arturia. They replicate the real hardware look with bitmap graphics in a wide range of crisp high def resolutions from very small to very large.

  • Vince Rooney
    Vince Rooney Member Posts: 5 Member
    edited August 2022

    Kontakt in addition to vector based scaling needs a major overhaul. It’s really dated and a mess compared to many other available plugins. I refuse to buy anything that needs “kontakt” to operate because I just don’t want to deal with the issues developer or kontakt related. Half of the plugins I have for it don’t work or display properly in the interface. Wasted $$. All of my UVI, Absolute 4 plugins work flawlessly. I hope they hold off Komplete 14 for a complete revamp of everything especially now that they are part of SoundWide. Maybe work with the folks at Brainwork’s and Izotope to come up with fresh designs that are “Accessible” and user friendly please. It’s sorely needed in 22/23.

  • SH-1
    SH-1 Member Posts: 27 Helper

    And then there are people like me for whom this is technically a solution to the annoyance of using it, but professionally it's not an option. For work, I have to run at least the screens my DAW is on in 4k resolution to be able to zoom into screen recorded content without losing detail. Plus, most software looks better running at 4k and being scaled to 200% size rather than running in 1080p directly. It's a thing I can rely on even if stuff is... a little on the smaller side. If you can blow it up to 2x for basically free when you are delivering in crisp 1080p 60 fps, that's simply a requirement.

    So while it's undeniable that this may help, this has also been the band aid that has commonly been suggested at least as far back as 2015 on the old forums and I don't think it was super useful advice back then either but now in 2022 technology simply has progressed to a point where this is too much of an ask, I mean imagine having to get a low resolution external screen for your laptop because it comes with a 1440p internal screen as the minimum option- I'd still much prefer an actual solution.

  • SH-1
    SH-1 Member Posts: 27 Helper
    edited August 2022

    Tell me when that happened? I have Neutron 3 and it's not scalable. Neither is Ozone 9. Neither is Insight 2. Neither is Nectar 3. They certainly look like they are vector based and scalable, but they are not. Some plugins with a visualizer are resizeable but that isn't actually scaling - it only makes the visualizer bigger and the controls stay tiny.

  • JustAnotherUSer
    JustAnotherUSer Member Posts: 19 Member

    Having already started another thread on this topic before finding this one, I'll add my voice to this one.

    Happy to read that. But still not holding my breath.

  • JustAnotherUSer
    JustAnotherUSer Member Posts: 19 Member

    And also: I coincidentally find myself shopping for a MIDI controller to replace my Edirol PCR-800 which doesn't play nice via USB with any of my 64bit machines. I know that NI has options here. And I would normally consider them, but I'm not inclined to deepen my involvement with the NI ecosystem, given the situation with scalability of Kontakt and their other apps. It would feel like rewarding them for less than adequate support of long term customers. I hope we hear something about this soon. Lack of scalability really diminishes and mars the experience.

  • mozart999uk
    mozart999uk Member Posts: 18 Member

    +1 from me too. In fact, I feel the whole Kontakt gui needs a bit of a redesign....

  • sandrodc
    sandrodc Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    Adding my voice to the thread. Using otherwise incredible NI plugins on a pair of 4K screens is a pain on the back side. I know it's probably not practical to re-write GUI's for old plugins (i.e. FM8, Battery), but at least allow their bitmaps to be scalable.

    Kontakt is another ballgame though, there are so many third party plugins running through it that not having a scalable UI is a proper blunder. What I find weird is that re-scaling is possible, as some newer plugins (i.e. Butch Via, Noire) have nice generous screens.

    Other than that, keep it up NI folks!

  • Marleen Vos
    Marleen Vos Member Posts: 2 Member

    Having a scalable interface would almost certainly get me to buy a much more complete version of Komplete. Working in the box seems to be going well for me, but I hate staring at that Kontakt interface, and so I avoid using it as much as possible. Come on NI, you can do it!

  • SH-1
    SH-1 Member Posts: 27 Helper

    It looks like Kontakt 7 will be Hi-DPI, from a leak I've seen a couple weeks ago. So that is something :)

  • Jon Watte
    Jon Watte Member Posts: 77 Advisor

    Sure, but if it's hi-DPI, but Komplete Kontrol still only shows three patches in the scrollable list box on the left, it doesn't matter how big or sharp the text is; I still need to resize the UI to see more items ...

  • SH-1
    SH-1 Member Posts: 27 Helper

    I haven't used the Hi-DPI kontakt version yet, but I am sure it's at least done in the way of Guitar Rig, where you get integer scaling-

  • ProfessorChaos
    ProfessorChaos Member Posts: 129 Advisor

    I bought Kontakt Komplete 9 back in 2014 when all I had was a 1080p monitor, so it was fine. But I didn't use it for years until recently and it's downright pathetic. It hurts my eyes. I created a long post with lots of screenshots but it was closed because there's already this thread, but if you want to see how bad the Kontakt GUI is, here's the link:

    This company is heading for bankruptcy soon if they don't do anything about this. This is a great time in history to make music with a computer and a MIDI keyboard from home, and most people don't have 1080p displays anymore. I recently bought the Hollywood Orchestra from Eastwest and other products from them and Spitfire because they have scalable HiDPI GUIs that don't kill my eyes. Initially I was going to buy Symphobia 1 and 2, but when I realized that they rely on Kontakt I said no way. And I barely touch anything NI anymore. That Komplete Kontrol thing is a joke, you open it and you can only see 3 patches, like someone above said. It totally defeats the purpose of what it wants to be, a place where you can see all your instruments. At least with Kontakt you can resize the window vertically, with KK you can't. It's like they made it terrible on purpose.

    So if NI is happy losing customers because they won't do what it takes to bring their GUI to current times, so be it.

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