Native Instruments Apple Silicon M1 Compatibility
Comments
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Soundwide partners Plugin Alliance & Brainworx certainly love their Macs.
Brand new MEGA Sampler (just released today with content from NI) is currently Mac-only.
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This is an insane comment. To be dedicated to what you do means spending your time creating new products and improving the old ones. To be honest means fixing what's broken in your products.
The heaviest stuff on CPU I use are from NI, just because they don't care about optimization and long term maintenance. I can't remember how much issues and troubles I had because of bugs with Reaktor, Kontakt or other NI plugins (on my old laptop and right now on my new one). For exemple, I just discovered recently that my brand new Guitar Rig 6 doesn't report its latency to the DAW, so you can't use it in parallel or record with it (after I found it, I did read mention of the issue dated almost from its release, so it's not new and it's still not fixed - it will probably never be fixed). They never improved the GUI of Reaktor and Kontakt in years, despite the massive amount of legit critics. Battery 4 is universally considered as a downgrade from Battery 3. I'm not using Drumlab anymore because of a crashing bug and CPU usage feedback loop that is there since at least 6 years (when I first bought it - I was using Maverick I think at this time) and this issue was never fixed. Form is amazing but is ultra CPU intensive (even compared to the granular engine of Pigments for exemple), doesn't sleep when not used (like 99% of any other vsti I use, and no it's not a problem to implement CPU pause with VST2), it has also issues with using own samples... And so on, and so on, etc. etc. All these issues were there since the first time I used their plugins, so it has nothing to do with OS changes : they just don't fix broken things, and don't improve their products.
When u-He released Diva it was a cpu hog (but had no bugs), and almost each year they brought various improvements, to the point of today where after a lot of regular updates it's a wonderful piece of code (stable and as CPU efficient as it can). Same with Valhalla, Tokyo Dawn Labs or many other great and respected devs : when you buy from them, you know they will constantly improve their products and add new stuff.
I love most NI synths and plugins : I don't criticize the sound quality of these tools and they seem to have very creative synth designers (this is the main reason I still buy them stuff). But the maintenance is awful, and it's a shame in terms of business. To me, this is just disrespect for the customers. There's no rationality or justification, this is just "thanks for the money, now good bye"...
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Windows has lots of users in the corporate market, but not so much in the music industry. There are many people who use Windows for music, it's true, and I think it's important to support them. But, how many music professionals do you know, and how many of those use Macs? For me, the answers are (1) many, and (2) every single one of them.
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I think nearly everyone here would agree that there's no rationality or justification to act like NI does.
Companies should try to satisfy the customers needs!
Except Kubrak, who's not getting tired to repeat and repeat that all is not NI's fault and if customers wan't updated software they should be charged for that because M1 is a new architecture... 😂 and were all dumb to think after 2 years, and nearly all other companies have managed to be futureproof for the moment, NI eventually could also do it this way.
such a funny guy!
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It’s just a matter of time and the saddest part is when NI stated “all was under control and things will set at place at right moment”. Sad because people is understanding it was a “too much optimistic promise” half lie due their lack of awareness (or excess of internal beaureucracy) and after 2 years (and M2 hitting the streets) users are still waiting for delivering…
@Kubrak the priority wasn’t Windows but M+ and we know how is going that too (with latest update coming 2 months later beyond its promised scheduled time and mixed feedback from users). Maschine software also giving some headaches (with people asking for previous versions seeking for stability) and zero hardware releases (maybe soon as promised), very small implementation of native AS as some pointed to you but soundwide getting mac versions first…
Seems like some responsability should be taken alongside more efforts put in the right place (whatever they decide it should be) but clock doesn’t waits and (as I warned long time ago) iPad based apps (or Universal if you prefer) are getting advanced features on lower wattage devices like Djay Pro AI 4.
Wishful thinking about AMD and x86 as platform for the future is amazing but the facts point just in the opposite direction and the thing is Apple leads the market. If NI can’t deliver Apple compatible products and don’t go the “full standalone route” (ala M+) then it’s more probably that it dilutes inside Soundwide than Apple leaving the music production field. At the moment there isn’t any alternative from any competitor (includding Elon Musk new phone or standalone receptor for VST3 like ElkOS due it’s only available for business not particulars aside the raspi open source project to engage devs…)
Maybe Juce or the new Framework (I forgot the name, sorry) with multiplaform targetting could be an answer for all of us but it remembers me the time where the discussion was about “implementing native apps or html5 on the web apps”. We are still waiting for Maschine or Traktor in the browser…
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Wishful thinking about AMD and x86 as platform for the future is amazing but the facts point just in the opposite direction and the thing is Apple leads the market.
We will see in few months, when Zen4 will come. M2 seems to be worse than I expected, if M3 will not be big improvement over M2, Apple will prove it is not able to keep pace with x86.
Apple leading market? AMD prepares x86 CPU that will have 100+ cores... How many supercomputers use Apple chip?
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M2 is worse for what? Because if we are on a music forum and are discussing what that processor can do for those that make music it performs pretty damn good and does that with little to no noise from the machine. You keep making the mistake in thinking that Apple has to beat AMD or Intel at their own game to compete. Apple doesn't need 100+ core monstrosity because that will be of little to no benefit to their users. Instead they can add more purpose made silicon to their SoC and accelerate certain workflows, we've already seen this with the media engine on the M1.
It's extremely silly to compare Apple's M1 to AMD's Epyc cpus. Apple's has never and will probably never cater to the super computer enterprise crowd. Even their Apple Servers were tailored more towards media houses. Apple knows who their market is and their machines and chips are more than fast enough for their market. As proven by countless benchmarks and reviews.
That being said other institutions are building custom ARM based super computers for their servers, that includes Amazon and Google.
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It’s typical PC enthusiast thing, the only thing that counts is the processor speed…
It doesn’t matter that it eats 200W and heats to 100 C - it’s faster, yeah 🤣
Exactly as mezzurias said: Apple doesn’t need the fastest CPU, they need competitive ones. And they have them now with M1 and M2.
Lisa Su is amazing CEO and maybe Apple could have gone with AMD (or bought them) but they didn’t. In M2 they have 10-20% faster processor from one generation to the next, with same or LESS energy footprint and this is amazing.
AMD Vice President lauded M1 as comparable with Zen 3, especially in single core efficiency. Zen 4 will be faster, yes. And it is good thing for consumers - the competition.
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I bought my Mac M1 about a year ago and could not wait to buy the NI library and a new keyboard and was willing to wait for compatibility issues, but that wait is over. The absolute incompetence of this company is both unexpected and astounding to me. I have never seen a company as completely unconcerned and unable to make their software and hardware compatible with a significant segment of their user base. Perhaps they do care and are just incompetent which is the best case scenario I can think of.
The wait is over because I have lost all respect and trust. I will now never own an NI keyboard or any of their plugins. I appreciate the update of Kontakt player, I presume they did this at the risk of losing every vendor that uses their software to install and manage instruments and possibly avoid legal action by those same vendors but users are obviously not a priority for them.
I'm tired of waiting. I'll go with other vendors and avoid this company like the 2nd tier company they have become. I'll reserve my considerable purchasing power for companies (and there are way too many to count) that are able to evolve and change when technology does.
For the record, I have spent thousands of dollars on plugins since my purchase of my Mac. They are all M1 compatible. Even in the unlikely event that NI products become fully M1 compatible in the future, the trust has been lost and I will never purchase a single product from this company. Ever.
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Yes, but Zen4 to Zen3 will be more (20-30%) with the same or less energy. It is amazing. And Zen5 probably yet another (20-30%). And none of Ryzen CPUs takes 200+ W, Intels do and way, way over 200...
My point is that if x86 develops faster than AS, plugins will be designed to use that power and will have problem to run on AS. If AS looses 10% in 2 years (one generation), it makes 60% in 10 years.
I agree with you that Apple does not need fastes CPU, but competetive one. It has competetive now, but my estimate is that it is not granted at all. M3 will decide.
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The point is not about arguing if Apple M1 is better or worst than zen4.
The point is delivering an update for a significative part of the NI users. That's it I think. It's useless to fight about who has the bigger, because each one has its own reason to use Apple or PC...
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The thing is, that porting to AS is not update. ;-) It is release of completely new version and as such should be paid service and not for free.
And if it is for free, folks should not complain, that it takes few months longer than to other plugin companies... It is major change, not simple update.
My point is that this crazines of changing CPU platform might come in foreseen future again, if Apple will not speedup AS development.
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I understand M1 users would like to have AS native NI SW ASAP. We may be sure NI does as much as possible. It is not easy task at all, so it takes time. It is better if it is done well and everything is thoroughly tested....
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Yet almost no one else who has made the transition is charging extra for it. They are charging for access to the plugin/sounds etc. They don't charge customers for doing their job (making sure their products work on customers platform of choice). If all NI did was port Absynth 5 to AS do you really think they should charge for that? This is a piece of software that hasn't seen a significant update in years. Yet U-He has updated all of their plugins to AS and they don't charge one red cent. You would think as a smaller developer they would have some incentive to charge, but they don't because they don't see supporting the platform as service to their customer, they see the plugin itself and the sounds as the service to their customers.
Now if NI releases Absynth 6 with new features then sure charge all the way like they normally do. But I'm not going to pay a company as large as NI, that makes money, for them to do the one thing they should be doing anyway.
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Porting to absolutely different CPU is not update. NI could easily call Absynth 6, or Absynth 5 AS.
That no, or just few, companies have charged for it is another story... If one has charged, the most would join, I guess.
Small developers have their own strategies and usualy are more customer friendly. And also they love their work and their plugins like their babies.... And so they care for them, not looking always for profit. Good feeling also counts... And many times more than money...
Big companies have owners that want results and as much profit as possible. Investors often think only in short run, sometimes, more rarely also in longrun... And what interests them most is money, not the feeling that the company they currently co-own makes perfect products. They may sell it whenever they decide and go for something else that brings more profit...
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In principle, it should be free. I’m not opposed to pay for it either, just get on with it.
At the moment, there are 2 threads at KVR about CLAP format and in both, NI is laughing stock to everyone. Heavily criticised by both users and developers in really harsh words 😢
That’s how a company looses respect and credibility, unfortunately.
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