Native Instruments Apple Silicon M1 Compatibility

Damn

I think nearly everyone here would agree that there's no rationality or justification to act like NI does.

Companies should try to satisfy the customers needs!

Except Kubrak, who's not getting tired to repeat and repeat that all is not NI's fault and if customers wan't updated software they should be charged for that because M1 is a new architecture... 😂 and were all dumb to think after 2 years, and nearly all other companies have managed to be futureproof for the moment, NI eventually could also do it this way.

such a funny guy!

Kubrak

Wishful thinking about AMD and x86 as platform for the future is amazing but the facts point just in the opposite direction and the thing is Apple leads the market. 

We will see in few months, when Zen4 will come. M2 seems to be worse than I expected, if M3 will not be big improvement over M2, Apple will prove it is not able to keep pace with x86.

Apple leading market? AMD prepares x86 CPU that will have 100+ cores... How many supercomputers use Apple chip?

mezzurias

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/20935#Comment_20935

M2 is worse for what? Because if we are on a music forum and are discussing what that processor can do for those that make music it performs pretty damn good and does that with little to no noise from the machine. You keep making the mistake in thinking that Apple has to beat AMD or Intel at their own game to compete. Apple doesn't need 100+ core monstrosity because that will be of little to no benefit to their users. Instead they can add more purpose made silicon to their SoC and accelerate certain workflows, we've already seen this with the media engine on the M1.

It's extremely silly to compare Apple's M1 to AMD's Epyc cpus. Apple's has never and will probably never cater to the super computer enterprise crowd. Even their Apple Servers were tailored more towards media houses. Apple knows who their market is and their machines and chips are more than fast enough for their market. As proven by countless benchmarks and reviews.

That being said other institutions are building custom ARM based super computers for their servers, that includes Amazon and Google.

Maciej Repetowski

It’s typical PC enthusiast thing, the only thing that counts is the processor speed…

It doesn’t matter that it eats 200W and heats to 100 C - it’s faster, yeah 🤣

Exactly as mezzurias said: Apple doesn’t need the fastest CPU, they need competitive ones. And they have them now with M1 and M2.

Lisa Su is amazing CEO and maybe Apple could have gone with AMD (or bought them) but they didn’t. In M2 they have 10-20% faster processor from one generation to the next, with same or LESS energy footprint and this is amazing.

AMD Vice President lauded M1 as comparable with Zen 3, especially in single core efficiency. Zen 4 will be faster, yes. And it is good thing for consumers - the competition.

Scodavis

I bought my Mac M1 about a year ago and could not wait to buy the NI library and a new keyboard and was willing to wait for compatibility issues, but that wait is over. The absolute incompetence of this company is both unexpected and astounding to me. I have never seen a company as completely unconcerned and unable to make their software and hardware compatible with a significant segment of their user base. Perhaps they do care and are just incompetent which is the best case scenario I can think of.

The wait is over because I have lost all respect and trust. I will now never own an NI keyboard or any of their plugins. I appreciate the update of Kontakt player, I presume they did this at the risk of losing every vendor that uses their software to install and manage instruments and possibly avoid legal action by those same vendors but users are obviously not a priority for them.

I'm tired of waiting. I'll go with other vendors and avoid this company like the 2nd tier company they have become. I'll reserve my considerable purchasing power for companies (and there are way too many to count) that are able to evolve and change when technology does.

For the record, I have spent thousands of dollars on plugins since my purchase of my Mac. They are all M1 compatible. Even in the unlikely event that NI products become fully M1 compatible in the future, the trust has been lost and I will never purchase a single product from this company. Ever.

Kubrak

@Maciej Repetowski

Yes, but Zen4 to Zen3 will be more (20-30%) with the same or less energy. It is amazing. And Zen5 probably yet another (20-30%). And none of Ryzen CPUs takes 200+ W, Intels do and way, way over 200...

My point is that if x86 develops faster than AS, plugins will be designed to use that power and will have problem to run on AS. If AS looses 10% in 2 years (one generation), it makes 60% in 10 years.

I agree with you that Apple does not need fastes CPU, but competetive one. It has competetive now, but my estimate is that it is not granted at all. M3 will decide.

Calagan

The point is not about arguing if Apple M1 is better or worst than zen4.

The point is delivering an update for a significative part of the NI users. That's it I think. It's useless to fight about who has the bigger, because each one has its own reason to use Apple or PC...

Kubrak

The thing is, that porting to AS is not update. ;-) It is release of completely new version and as such should be paid service and not for free.

And if it is for free, folks should not complain, that it takes few months longer than to other plugin companies... It is major change, not simple update.

My point is that this crazines of changing CPU platform might come in foreseen future again, if Apple will not speedup AS development.

------

I understand M1 users would like to have AS native NI SW ASAP. We may be sure NI does as much as possible. It is not easy task at all, so it takes time. It is better if it is done well and everything is thoroughly tested....

mezzurias

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/21034#Comment_21034

Yet almost no one else who has made the transition is charging extra for it. They are charging for access to the plugin/sounds etc. They don't charge customers for doing their job (making sure their products work on customers platform of choice). If all NI did was port Absynth 5 to AS do you really think they should charge for that? This is a piece of software that hasn't seen a significant update in years. Yet U-He has updated all of their plugins to AS and they don't charge one red cent. You would think as a smaller developer they would have some incentive to charge, but they don't because they don't see supporting the platform as service to their customer, they see the plugin itself and the sounds as the service to their customers.

Now if NI releases Absynth 6 with new features then sure charge all the way like they normally do. But I'm not going to pay a company as large as NI, that makes money, for them to do the one thing they should be doing anyway.

Kubrak

Porting to absolutely different CPU is not update. NI could easily call Absynth 6, or Absynth 5 AS.

That no, or just few, companies have charged for it is another story... If one has charged, the most would join, I guess.

Small developers have their own strategies and usualy are more customer friendly. And also they love their work and their plugins like their babies.... And so they care for them, not looking always for profit. Good feeling also counts... And many times more than money...

Big companies have owners that want results and as much profit as possible. Investors often think only in short run, sometimes, more rarely also in longrun... And what interests them most is money, not the feeling that the company they currently co-own makes perfect products. They may sell it whenever they decide and go for something else that brings more profit...

Maciej Repetowski

In principle, it should be free. I’m not opposed to pay for it either, just get on with it.

At the moment, there are 2 threads at KVR about CLAP format and in both, NI is laughing stock to everyone. Heavily criticised by both users and developers in really harsh words 😢

That’s how a company looses respect and credibility, unfortunately.

nightjar

Situation is pretty obvious with benefit of hindsight.

Management made some bad decisions about how much technical debt they could run up before needing to pay it down.

These bad decisions made them a slow moving boat, laden with barnelces.

There's a kludgey, smelly old Diesel in the engine room that needs to be ripped out.

nanotable

„Benefit of hindsight“ is giving NI almost too much credit, imho. They took the very risky bet that everything is going to stay the same, lost on several fronts (AS, VST3, possibly standalone Grooveboxes) and are now scrambling to get anything done. It’s sad to see, especially because it was bound to happen at some point.

Other companies like Arturia for example, who have clearly done their homework, are now in a position to run circles around NI. They’ve ported their entire portfolio to new formats and architectures, are gradually updating their old stuff and are putting out new and innovative products like Pigments — while we’re waiting on a modern and unified browser, among other things.

And NI are not only hurting themselves and their customers, they’re potentially damaging 3rd party developers as well. It’s less of a problem, now that Kontakt is native, I guess. But the last couple of days I’ve debated whether I should get the new Tangle Blocks pack by Toybox or not. It should have been a no-brainer (of course!! 🤩) but the uncertainty around Reaktor certainly does not help.

Kubrak

You are right at the point that port Reaktor to AS is way more difficult than any other plugin, entire DAW, ....

Clay

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/21118#Comment_21118

The comparison with Arturia is depressingly stark. Both they and NI are two of my favorite DSP companies, but Arturia is so far ahead at this point that they aren’t really in the same league anymore. Around 2015 or so, I would say Arturia might have been in the same place: V Collection was as mismatched and inconsistently updated as Komplete. But Arturia started aggressively reinvesting in their products right around then, unifying and future-proofing their frameworks, and today their product lineup is among the very best in the industry.

Alas, NI is still stuck in 2015.