Question about NKS preview loading error

holonology
holonology Member Posts: 60 Member
edited August 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I've been playing around with Komplete Kontrol to see what it can do. Something I've noticed is that pretty much all my SW loads correctly with NKS compatibility. However, this is with the exception of a Spitfire Audio VST. When I click to load a preset, this happens...

However, if I try to load the instrument manually (aka: in the dropdown to load an instrument) this does work. This seems odd if KK can load it, but won't do so via the preview. Anyone experienced this or anything similar, and is there anything I should be doing to make this work with the preset browser? Everything else seems to be the there (images, previews etc) but it's having a hard time loading the plugin. I have the standard install, so vst2 & 3 are installed by default by the Spitfire application.

Any pointers appreciated 🙂

Edit: I'm on Mac M1 which I think means I should be limited to VST3 locations if I recall (correct me if I'm wrong here.)

Best Answer

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert
    edited August 2023 Answer ✓

    It's not the preview you are trying to load, it's the NKS patch but this happens if that patch or bank was made with the VST2 version of a plugin but it doesn't support migration to the VST3 version. The VST3 itself will load, as you found, but it will not load the patch from the NKS because it still expects to load the VST2, which it can't unless you run KK in Rosetta. Ask Spitfire if they can update their NKS patches for this plugin to support VST3 migration

Answers

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert
    edited August 2023 Answer ✓

    It's not the preview you are trying to load, it's the NKS patch but this happens if that patch or bank was made with the VST2 version of a plugin but it doesn't support migration to the VST3 version. The VST3 itself will load, as you found, but it will not load the patch from the NKS because it still expects to load the VST2, which it can't unless you run KK in Rosetta. Ask Spitfire if they can update their NKS patches for this plugin to support VST3 migration

  • Keith Cocker
    Keith Cocker Member Posts: 120 Advisor

    Several Spitfire plugins need to be loaded in KK this way. And the reason is partly that KK is still broken from the update last year. In the process of creating an Apple Silicon Version NI messed up several aspects of KK and in particular NKS compatibility with 3rd party libraries that were previously fully compatible with the NKS standard. I have raised tickets with NI about this and they have acknowledged the problem. But, while there have been updates to KK to deal with some issue this still remains to be sorted out. Spitfire are clear what the problem is and also clear that they cannot do anything UNTILL NI fix the fundamental bugs that they introduced with the Silicon version last winter. It's very annoying and I for one are fed up with waiting for this to be sorted out. NI marketed the NKS standard and it is NI's responsibility to maintain its functionality so that compliant developers can continue to support their products accordingly. Rant over!!!!

  • holonology
    holonology Member Posts: 60 Member

    Thanks folks. Firstly, @Kymeia this explains a lot technically, so cheers for helping me understand. It's one of those where it's just one synth that does it - but also that means it's just one synth to have my whole NKS compatible collection working! To be fair Spitfire do advertise it as NKS compatible, however I understand that KK is a maybe due for an update. I notice that while Native Access & Kontakt have the new branding, KK does not - so maybe a hint there's something in the pipeline?

    And @Keith Cocker thanks for the input. I know many synth makers have their own wrapper (Arturia with Analog Lab for example) and perhaps with NKS proving an issue, other manufacturers may not prioritise it.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    but also that means it's just one synth to have my whole NKS compatible collection working! 

    Does it have a lot of presets? If it doesn't it wouldn't be impossible for you to save them as NKS yourself using the VST3 - I have fixed a number of plugin NKS this way myself, not wanting to wait for the developer to do it.

    Alternatively just load using Rosetta. NKS is not broken in itself, everything that worked prior to the Apple Silicon update still works if you stay in Rosetta. The problem only arises if you want to avoid Rosetta, and then you need to accept that there are still some issues to be ironed out - despite a lot of progress having been made.

  • holonology
    holonology Member Posts: 60 Member

    Not lots of presets no. I come clean to M1, and basically all software is compatible now, so Rosetta is a road I'd prefer to avoid at this point. But in a way, loading it via KK and changing presets from there might work. Cheers for the tip - I hadn't thought of rolling my own.

  • Keith Cocker
    Keith Cocker Member Posts: 120 Advisor

    Hi Kymeia, you have a great understanding of these matters - much more than me. But on this my experience is not the same and what you say is not correct unfortunately. Using Rosetta does not put things back to where they were with KK before the Silicon update last year. Let me give you a run down:

    Before KK Silicon update:

    1. Load an instance of KK in Logic
    2. Load a Violin from Spifire Audio BBC Symphony Orchestra Pro
    3. Set Komplete s 61 mark II keyboard to Follow a scale - D Minor Mapped for example

    The keyboard blue lights would show ONLY from G2 to C6 i.e. it would show the range of the instrument and no more. Outside the range of the instrument the scale mapping would not apply thus allowing the articulation programmed Keyswitches (which are outside the playable range of the instrument obviously) to fully operate.

    After Silicon update whether or not Logic is running under Rosetta:

    Steps 1, 2 & 3 the same

    Now blue lights with scale cover whole of keyboard and do not indicate range of instrument and scaling applies to all keys and therefore Keyswitching for articulations is unusable as key switches excluded by scale are inoperative.


    NI are aware of this and acknowledge it but after more than 7 months have not done anything about it. The third party libraries cannot be updated until NI do their work.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    I don't have any Spitfire stuff unfortunately - is this using VST2 or VST3? afaik light guide SDK is still a WIP for VST3 so you are right that there are still some things to sort but in my experience we have come a long way since the beginning of the year when relatively few plugins were working well. Spitfire seems more the exception now than the rule.

  • Keith Cocker
    Keith Cocker Member Posts: 120 Advisor

    Spitfire plugins load as VST3. Let's hope we see some progress soon. Best wishes

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert
    edited August 2023

    Yeah I'm not surprised the VST3 struggles with lightguide as I think the Lightguide API/SDK or whatever it is, is still a WIP for VST3, but did they not come as VST2 before the Apple Silicon change? Surely those work with the light guide under Rosetta? (I'm going by the fact that you said this stuff was working before the switchover to full Apple Silicon/VST3 support - that could only have been with a VST2 version)

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