NKS User Library
Comments
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It’s not about working differently. It’s about “if someone wants to give back to the community and make them for free, let him make it “😉
As you said, enough room for both approaches
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I think we went a bit "off topic" here and i suggest to keep this thread "clean", completely practical and informational instead of yet another post for debates.
So, i will repeat here, as a general answer to all, something that i wrote on another post, sometime ago:
"Freelancesoundlab presets definitely worth their money (same as anyone else who spend time and energy on something and want to get back something for his work). We (the few of us who create NKS presets for free) try, as much as possible, to not interfere with Jesper's work. If he already did something we don't do it (or, we are not sharing it publicly), with few random exceptions."
Let's keep this as a general rule, an ethical but not mandatory rule. All happy, all good.
As Kymeia wrote, there are hundreds of VSTs out there, without NKS presets, or even official support. Lot of work, for a lot of time, for everyone! :-)
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If it’s not mandatory, why practically saying the guy not to do it? If he wants to do it and share it with the community, let him do it.
Maybe for you is not the case, cause you think to do something “ethical”, but in practice what your self proclaimed rule is doing is protecting one user at the expense of all the others who could benefit of a free version.
You are totally correct in saying that someone who worked hard has all the rights to sell his stuff to have something in return. What is not correct is asking someone else who wants to make something free of charge for the community not to do it cause a paid version already exists. A little bit like if all the companies producing virtual instruments went to Spitfireaudio (or any other free Kontakt libraries producer) telling them they can’t release their free Labs instruments cause they already did paid versions of instruments. But in this case we are all happy to have some free plugins…why not here?
This is quite far from what I would define “ethical”
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Well say.....
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Why you are always make things difficult? :-p
Personally, i never said to the guy "don't do it" (neither i will ever do such thing, to anyone)! Instead i encourage him to learn the process and send him a link for study. Neither any one else here said such thing. I would love to see more people active on this case and i will love to download their free presets too. But if you think that someone can suddenly start to make all those things immediately (especially something so complex as Omnisphere) and without lot of practice and experience, then, you don't know the case.
It took me 1.5 year from the time i first hear about NKS in the old forum, to fully understand the whole process, learning the tools, start making my first presets, mistakes, experiments, etc etc. before i dared to publicly share my first work! In fact, in the old forum i didn't even comment, ever. Only read and learn (and... download). And believe me, i am pretty smart and a very quick learner.
So, back in our case, i find my self again explaining the obvious to you, because of your wrong impressions. I never write anywhere and said "not share your presets because a guy has paid versions". On the contrary. The only thing i said is that here, we have a kind of "silent agreement" not to interfere on the works of others. And it feels very right to me, so i suggested if everyone want to follow this "rule" it will be ok (ethical) but not mandatory of course.
So please, don't try to create a case here, out of thin air, like those ancient sophists who convinced the naive Athenians to sentenced Socrates to drank the Conium... 😊
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Ok. You’re right. Your point of view is “obvious”. Everything others do is “stupid” (as you said in other posts). You KNOW the guy can’t make NKS, he has no experience, he needs to study and of course he needs YOUR help and your links. I give up. You won
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...an incredible recital of twisted words and meanings...
Well done. I give up. You won back my whatever win! 🏆️🎖️🎁
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I think the main point is those of us who have been making NKS a long time know how laborious (and often tedious) it is and therefore respect and value each others work. I have had a few times myself where I have worked hard for several days to create a NKS bank only to find someone else has posted their own version of the same thing. It's frustrating but there's nothing you can do when that happens and there's certainly no point in complaining about it - after all that other person has also put in that work in good faith, and they are also only trying to be helpful - so we just accept that's the way it is and say thanks and move onto something else.
So over time we have evolved this 'unspoken agreement' if we can even call it that, to as much as is humanly possible not to replicate each other's work whether it is semi commercialised or not. Simply on practical grounds it makes sense as there are always new plugins to convert and it means any work done is not time wasted, but I think this is also the civil thing to do. These are not 'rules', this is all voluntary, we can't tell people what to do or not to do (except never post commercial banks that undermine copyright because that would be wrong, and also break forum rules) but I think it is perfectly reasonable to let new people know this so they don't unintentionally waste their own time and use their developing skills productively. I don't think anyone was saying don't do anything, in fact help and support was offered.
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All very valid points, in the case of the work you guys do here for free.
In the case of a NKS that is available only by buying it, an user offering to make a free version is not making a duplicate work that is a waste of time and will not offer anything: it will give the opportunity to all other users to have the NKS without having to pay for it.
That said…if the reason is not to mess with the paid version, this is another question. But as I said, it is to the detriment of all users
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Again no one is saying 'don't mess with the paid version' - that's a straw man. The whole point of this thread from the start was to primarily to empower users to do it for themselves because NI certainly were not doing that and we had to find out how to do this ourselves the hard way. We were able to show users that it is possible for anyone to create NKS patches of their own, for free, and likewise people are free to share them too and we are grateful for everything people create whether for free or for a small payment (within what is legal and acceptable on this forum of course). However I think Freelance Soundlabs are just as much part of this community as the people who do this for free, I don't want to foster an 'us and them' mentality here, I think it is ultimately counterproductive and that is to the detriment of the community we have built up together.
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For me it comes down to time v money. I take on part time work so I can dedicate time to develop and test libraries which anyone who makes them knows they take a lot of time to make, not generating files that’s usually easy, tagging and organizing, testing etc and then support especially as I often will login and assist blind users.
of course people can make and do what they want, I’m not going to complain, but if the income dries up ( which it has slowly been) and I can’t help make ends meet it’s simply the end of what I do. I don’t make music much anymore, I try and maintain a life where I do things I love to do and try pay my taxes. Most people out there don’t care much about the quality of what goes into things, happy to spend $10k on plugins but rarely want to spend for support work like NKS as they feel “someone should do it for nothing because others do….”
People like being able to contact me direct with issues and like the uniform way things are designed based on mostly official NKS and know if things are posted they are complete and maintained. Not everyone out there has free time to do this, nor time to mess around trying to find the best free/cracked versions.
Im thinking this is likely the last year I can manage NKS personally since I really need more stable work than what I have especially with the cost of living now so high and if I end up back at full time work I’ll have no time left for NKS. I’m actually surprised to still be doing this after 7 years, I gave it a max of 4 years before interest fell off.
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Before you call it quits, JesterMgee—try patreon. Some of us here want to support your work. You can always just pick the work that interests you or that your highest contributing patreons request.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not calling quits just yet, but have to face facts on the model I setup 7 years ago. I started making NKS libraries just for the instruments I owned at the time and did it in my free time way back figuring things out as everyone did. I had experience in similar from doing the same for Ableton Push for a while.
I was made redundant from my full time job not long after and because I was being asked by many users at the time to look into making NKS for all kinds of plugins, especially blind users when the voice guidance came in I decided to try and just pick up small jobs and make NKS management one of my jobs so it is something I make money from yes, but if I didn't I would not be able to spend the time I have on it.
The problem has been several factors of late. In Australia the cost of living has risen by a factor of 30-50% in just the last 2 years, the overall interest in NKS and NI products seems to have fallen quite a bit over the years and of course both the increase in more users making libraries coupled with my libraries popping up on torrents and other illegal sharing sites highlights what I always knew, this kind of thing cannot be done forever especially now I have lost one of the small freelance jobs I had been doing for 2 years which is a big reason I just need to look at more stable income.
I have had a lot of great support over the years form users here, the wider community, NI themselves and many developers who I have contacted over the years and am thankful the people have supported me but it simply comes down to the ability for me to put my kids through school and the fact 24 hours in a day is barely enough. Quite a lot of stresses in my life at the moment.
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The only thing I am really taking away from your point of view is the supposed right to Get something for free.
Surely anyone who has legitamately purchased a copy of Omnisphere for several hundred dollars, can put there hand in their pocket and find just another twenty to buy this highly polished, well tagged and technically supported NKS pack containing literally thousands of presets without wanting it for free.
As a blind composer myself I am extremely grateful for the amazing guys on this forum who ceaslessly put in so much time and effort to convert NKS presets for plug-ins we would never previously have been able to access.
Most do this for no payment at all, aside from the reward of a mutual community spirit that has up until now never been questioned.
JesterMgee has devoted thousands of hours of his life in creating NKS packs for which the cost is very nominal in relation to the often complex work involved.
JesterMgee, Kymeia, jggorman, Sunborn, Christos and others are unsung heroes as far as I and many others are concerned, and I do hope that their spirit of goodwill will not be dented.
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I’m sorry, but I never questioned the right of JesterMgee to sell his hard work, nor supposed the right to get something for free (and also never asked in the beginning for a peculiar thing for free).
I just read a post of a user that said by his own decision that he was working on creating NKS files for Omnisphere. And I answered him “Free Omnisphere NKS will be more than appreciated”.
I just thought that showing appreciation for another of those “unsung heroes” was a good thing to do, as I often put a like to the others contributing to this fantastic side of the community in this thread.
I didn’t think it was something wrong to do. Probably I was wrong
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