Native Access V1 not showing latest updates

oranges · 2023-03-30T13:04:39+00:00

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I see a few reports of NA v1 not showing the most recent updates, including Kontakt, Komplete Control, Massive etc.

This is happening on my Win10 PC - which was pulling updates fine until a few days ago.

From what I can tell v1 is still supported, so is there a reason these updates haven't been pushed out to NA v1 users ?

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random speculation time: The updates stopped appearing at the same time as Windows Defender started flagging the updates as containing trojans - I'm hoping you're not running the backend on windows (!) but maybe something stopping the rollout to NAv1 at server level ?

Incidentally - from what I can tell the virus warning are all from the 'realtime protection' - not from the main defender scanning engine. The "!ml" at the end of the warning indicates "machine learning (=ml)". My guess would be that it's not just the individual .zip file that the realtime engine finds suspicious but it's the actions of the entire system - ie Native Access PLUS the file, if that makes sense ?

If only I could actually download the updates to find out :D

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Ed M

You might want to shift to the new version of Native Access. NA1 is set to to be phased out, if not already.

Actually some instruments will only install via NA2 (can't remember which ones, a few that were released at the time when Komplete Kontrol 14 was launched ).

oranges

hi Ed

Thanks for the reply....and possibly, but if NI are still supporting V1 then I'd prefer to say there - who knows what problems V2 will bring, and I see many reports of issues including people being told to roll back to V1.

NI say that at least 650k users are on V2 but don't say how many are still on V1. I assume it's in the 100s of thousands ?

If V1 is still supported then it should work - and if it doesn't work then it seems to point to something that NI need to fix - although nobody seems too interested in the support team.

If V1 is no longer working then an official statement needs to be made (in my opinion!)

I think this points to something broken in the back end that really needs fixing - but as I say it's tumbleweed from the official support, hence asking here.

Not sure what instruments need NA2 as everything worked until a few days ago and I assume you mean Komplete 14 not Komplete Kontrol 14 ?

pinging @Hayo_NI to see if we can get some input

oranges

so pinging @Hayo_NI didn't help get any input

Support did get back to me via email however.

They are suggesting that Windows 10 22H2 is no longer supported by Native Instruments which is why the updates don't show up.

@Hayo_NI - can you confirm what support are saying ?

Hayo_NI

I can. NA2 is currently the most reliable place for your products to appear. Either your operating system doesn't support the products, or NA1s old infrastructure does not support the product's activation mechanisms. The migration phase should be painless, as NA2 takes your NA1 settings and looks through your product locations automatically. You might need to locate some products, but there shouldn't be major inconveniences. If there are, then please reach out to support. If your products still don't appear on NA2, then it's an operating system issue.

oranges

thanks Hayo

so despite the ongoing issues with NA2 you are now saying NA1 is no longer supported ?

I think it would be good if you could make an official announcement on this and also my reply from support that Windows 10 22H2 is no longer supported for future product updates too.

To be honest this is fairly big news if you are saying that you are no longer supporting Windows 10 going forward.

thanks

Kubrak

I guess, NA1 is not supported for Win10/11, just for Win7/8. So, it installs only versions for Win7/8. No new updates are for those platforms, so no updates are offered....

I use NA2 for year or so and no problems. It used to take considerable time to start in earlier versions, but it is gone. IMHO, NA2 is better than NA1.

oranges

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/61823#Comment_61823

maybe but that's not what Support are saying - they are saying that future updates such for products such as Kontakt - Massive X etc are not supported on Windows 10 - and that seems to be confirmed by Hayo ?

Support said:

If a new version of a software is released and is not compatible with your system, will not show up, as the update is not possible

something I sent vi PM to Hayo for confirmation before posting here.

I can't believe this is actually true however, so I'm trying to get specific confirmation before I post this on other forums as I think that there should have been an official announcement.

Kubrak

I guess there is some kind of missunderstanding in communication.

I have Win10 on two computers and NA2 on the both and everything updates to latest version. For example Massive X few days ago (after week, two when it has appeared in NA2, but Win Defender blocked installation...).

I am pretty sure, NI spoke about NA1 and Win10. NA1 is legacy and is aimed for installation on Win7, so no need to update what it should download and install on Win10, which is not supported by NA1 any more....

Simply, if you start using NA2 on Win10, updates for Win10/11 will show up and you will be able to install them.

oranges

@Kubrak

I understand what you are saying and appreciate your input - and, like you, I think support are wrong in saying Windows 10 is no longer supported.

It's also possible that updating to NA2 will mean I can download the updates BUT that's not really the proper solution in my opinion.

We all know that NA2 gives issues for some users - and as far as I'm aware NA1 is still a supported application and until last week everything was working and updating perfectly.

Its seems clear to me from the various reports here, that NI haven't pushed out the updates to NA1, most likely by accident (?). I think it's important that NI are transparent about what the EXACT situation is.

Simply saying that updates or applications 'not supported on Windows 10' by both @Hayo_NI and support is hugely misleading and almost certainly incorrect - which doesn't inspire confidence when the Product Manager gets it wrong.

Hence I'm asking for clarification - which seems to be very difficult despite NI claiming 'transparency'.

My strong suspicion is they don't actually know what the issue is with the latest updates and NA1 and they don't care or aren't willing to take a look - despite 100s of thousands of users still using it.

Jeremy_NI

@oranges We offer Native Access 1 as legacy software and it is clearly identified as such: Native Access 1 Legacy Installers for Older Operating Systems

Hayo has explained it very well. "Either your operating system doesn't support the products, or NA1s old infrastructure does not support the product's activation mechanisms."

As said before Native Access 1 is a legacy software, it is not developed anymore, there is no ambiguity here. With Windows 10 you can use Native Access 2:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/native-access-2/

oranges

@Jeremy_NI

with respect, there IS some ambiguity. I've been told by support that the reason that the latest updates do not show in Windows 10 22H2, which is the very latest version of Win10 - is because these latest patches for Kontakt 7, Massive X, Komplete Kontrol etc do not support Windows 10 22H2.

That seemed to be confirmed by @Hayo_NI and I asked for clarification.

NI also say in a PINNED comment

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/8806/dev-talks-why-we-transformed-native-access

"We’re going to be migrating all of our users from NA1 to NA2 early on in the year so that we can work under one environment, provided they’re on MacOS 10.14/10.15 and above, and Windows 10 and above"

Which clearly hasn't happened as yet - or at the very least there has been no official announcement.

"Either your operating system doesn't support the products, or NA1s old infrastructure does not support the product's activation mechanisms"

The product's activation mechanism also HAS NOT changed between these very minor point releases and we know that Win10 22H2 is almost certainly supported (that would be idiotic to drop support for windows 10) - so we can conclude that that statement also isn't correct.

I think we can safely assume that you don't actually know the reason that these latest updates are not showing for NAv1 users. There has been such a talent drain at NI over the last year or so that I suppose it was to be expected.

If you are no longer supporting updates via NAv1 then you should CLEARLY say so and email your users so that we know (transparency remember !). I don't see you saying that ANYWHERE, on this forum or elsewhere.

Jeremy_NI

@oranges No one said we were dropping Windows 10. Native Access 2 supports Windows 10 and 11. Native Access 1 is still out there but you do understand it is not developed anymore as Native Access 2 is now developed. The solution in your case would simply be to use the current developed version. Is there a specific reason you absolutely want to stick with Native Access 1? Have you even tried Native Access 2?

oranges

@Jeremy_NI

No one said we were dropping Windows 10.

Not actually true - support said the reason that the updates were not showing in NAv1 was because my operating system (win10 22h2) was not supported.

I also know that NAv1 is not being developed - but that isn't the same as 'not supported'. If it IS not supported an no longer works then you need to let your customers know.

Personally, I'm not interested in upgrading, as others have reported issues. I'll update when NAv1 is no longer supported.

It also seems you are saying that these updates 'should' be appearing in NAv1 ? Well that's not the case. It also seems that you don't know why.

Kubrak

Support said:

If a new version of a software is released and is not compatible with your system, will not show up, as the update is not possible

Mind the if. The statement is true, but it does not apply to you, if you use NA2.

That is, what I meant, that there is misunderstanding in the discussion...

NA1 is legacy and meant to use on Win7. You cannot expect, it will work as desired on Win10. It used to work to some extent and will work less and less as updates will use different licencing system as Hayo has told you. It may be unpleasant, but it is understandable.

What about trying NA2 if that works for you? It works for most people. Just few people have problems.. It has 650k users, no wonder there are some that have various problems.... It represents only tiny, tiny fraction of all users....

oranges

yes - we need CLEAR statement as to the situation regarding NAv1 and if it receiving any future updates.

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