Is it possible to step modulate macros?

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TheLoudest
TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
edited March 2022 in Maschine

Hey folks,

I manage to step modulate internal parameters in step mode

but I would like to do the same with macros

is it possible?

when I use the same procedure for macros (hold a pad then turn a knob) the value don't change ...it's stuck :(

Can someone help me on that please? (or tell me if it's the "normal" behavior)

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Answers

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,845 mod

    Hello,

    It should work with pad and group level makros, do you use a pre mapped instrument, maybe you have to turn a bit until it changes some switch parameters with just 2 or 3 states for example behave different than 128 step parameters.

    Uwe

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited February 2022

    Hello Uwe

    thanks for your help

    no it's not "pre mapped instruments"

    I made the macros myself (maybe I didn't do it correctly... There are particular settings to take into account when we create macros?)

    I try to have macros to send CC# or Program Change messages to my external midi devices (therefore 128 steps parameters..)

    That said (I did the test) even when I simply add an internal parameter (for example a sampler parameter) to macros, I cannot change his value in step mode either...

    on the other hand it works directly, when I want to step modulate an internal parameter I can do it. But when it is a "macro", I can't change the value when I press a pad in step mode (therefore I can't automate the changes)

    WEIRD.

    that's why i'm wondering if it's even possible...or if it's a bug (with macros)...or if there's something i'm not doing right.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,845 mod

    Strange, i tried it a few moments ago, also to check if it's maybe a bug of the current version. But it works like always, set makros, go into step mode then hold a pad and set makro, release pad- done. Maybe you can send me a file where you have tried it and i can check it.

    Uwe

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited February 2022

    Ok I send you a template for testing

    TemplateTest.mxprj

    I have more groups normally on my "default template" but I only left the first two with only 1 sound in each for simplicity, and only with this version of my template you can see the problem...

    I have 3 macros in all (on the 2 sounds)

    and I can't manage to automate any of them in step mode (as I can do for example directly with sampler parameters, FX parameters etc. if I want)

    the problem seems to be only with my macros (even when I "transform" sampler or FX parameters to macros it doesn't work)

    Thank you very much!

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,795 mod
    edited February 2022

    Not sure if it's a bug or just the lack of a feature.

    I've tried and the device always shows the value of 0 (zero) when twisting the knob, it does actually create the modulation and works but does not display any value changes when applying them, obviously, this makes it very confusing to the user as it seems nothing is happening, specifically on an M+, on the desktop it's not as much as an issue since we can see the lane changing but it's still far from ideal as it's impossible to be precise or even know if you already reached the max/min a knob can go to. Basically, there's zero visual feedback.

    This applies to MACROs in general, not just STEP Mod, even when using the AUTO-write function for normal modulation we still don't see any values/percentages changing.

    I'll report this and when/if there's a follow-up i'll comment here.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited February 2022

    Thx!

    @D-One wrote:

    I'm inclined to say it's a bug - altho it could be the lack of a feature but if that's the case it's pretty silly

    Honestly, I really hope it's a bug...because 1) I would still hope for it to be fixed in the next update (which would be huge for my way of working... as much as it is currently a dealbreaker actually..😕)

    2) Whenever I try to figure out how it works, I can't help thinking that it can't be implemented this way on purpose... it must be a bug, they can't provide functionality half implemented like this.

    Bug happens...

    Myself, as an amateur software developer, I couldn't leave my users with a software like that, even for free (so imagine customers..!..)

    This only happens for CC's, Pitch Wheel, and Prog Changes

    Actually there is also the same behaviour with internal parameters when they are set into macros

    I'll report this and when/if there's a follow-up i'll comment here

    I was waiting for a confirmation of the issue here, but I was also going to report it to support so I'm waiting for your answer or do you think it would be more effective if I also made a report on my side?

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,795 mod

    I made some mistakes testing, so edited my previous reply.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
    edited February 2022
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/4562#Comment_4562

    OK! I confirm that I have exactly the same behaviour

    About the lack of visual feedback we could possibly say that it is "intentional" since unfortunately on Maschine+ we have no "real-time" visual feedbacks on the automations anyway .. (which is still a big lack for a standalone device )

    except we note that even when we record several values ​​for the macros (as you experienced : "blind method"), and then we press on the different pads we should at least retrieve the recorded values displayed on the screen for these steps (as is the case for automations on other parameters than macros) .....->BUG🤞

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,795 mod
    edited February 2022

    @TheLoudest said:

    I was waiting for a confirmation of the issue here, but I was also going to report it to support so I'm waiting for your answer or do you think it would be more effective if I also made a report on my side?

    That's good practice IMO, just to be 100% sure, I'd always do that in your shoes when you find issues; the discussion often leads to more details so you can make a more well-explained report and even send the thread link to support. I think there's enough here for you to go ahead and report.

    I'm sort of in a privileged situation where I can report bugs directly without going through support as a middleman but that shouldn't stop you from also reporting.


    @TheLoudest said:

    About the lack of visual feedback we could possibly say that it is "intentional" since unfortunately on Maschine+ we have no "real-time" visual feedbacks on the automations anyway .. (which is still a big lack for a standalone device )

    Yes. I have a feeling it's always been like this for Macros but no one ever complained (that I can remember) because the majority of users are on the desktop platform and MAS+ is still somewhat new, that's why IDK if it's a bug. There are a few things that are quirky on the M+ due to it being a port of standard computer sw, this type of refinements are all WIP afaik.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,845 mod
    edited February 2022

    Ok so it modulates/step modulates but you don't see a changing value? Only the dot for indicating there is automation going on? I would also love to have some overlay in the notes view for the current selected macro or whatever automation or something like that, just the line you see on desktop just over the notes or something.

    Uwe

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,795 mod
    edited February 2022

    @Uwe303 said:

    Ok so it modulates/step modulates but you don't see a changing value? Only the dot for indicating there is automation going on?

    Yes, just the dot instead of changes like normal modulation works when not using Macros.

    I guess the answer to the OP question is "Yes" but followed by a big asterisc*

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,845 mod

    I know D i was just asking to clarify if it is really that or if he really can't automate 😎👍 so bug report or feature request

    Uwe

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor

    Ok so it modulates/step modulates but you don't see a changing value? Only the dot for indicating there is automation going on? 

    I confirm, only the dot.

    Exactly the same behaviour as decribed by D-One.

    So you have an idea if this is more a bug report or a feature request?

     I would also love to have some overlay in the notes view for the current selected macro or whatever automation or something like that, just the line you see on desktop just over the notes or something

    Yes we all want a real automations implementation on Machine+ I guess

    I don't know if it must be with vizualizing the curves though..

    I come from an MPC and it is sometimes awkward to deal with it on a 7" touchscreen..so I can't see how it could be relevant on the Maschine's small screens..(non-touch...)

    I would be fine with the screen displays simply the changes on the values, in real-time

    and of course if we could also see the recorded values on a step by holding this step (in other words pretty much the current implementation but who actually works :D)

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,845 mod
    edited February 2022

    I would say this is a feature request, the thing with the overlay was just an idea, it of course needs a second and third thought, cause there are some issues, like the automation is reaktive and so an indication would not necessarily make sense. But for sure there is room for improvement, even if i think it's not that important but im always also for stuff others might need maybe, cause everyone has a different workflow.

    Uwe

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 1,131 admin

    @TheLoudest It seems our mods were not able to get you the answer you were after. Please don't hesitate to follow-up with our Maschine team directly via email if you want to report this as a feature or a bug. We're available via email here: https://bit.ly/n1msc

    This thread is now closed.

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