Library updates need to be handled differently

Hi,

The way NI and Native Access are currently handling library updates is just bad.

What Native Access should do:

It should never install any library updates in case the required Kontakt version isn't installed. From all I know, right now it installs them even if there's neither a higher versioned full or player version installed (which, obviously, is the worst of all options).
When you have a lower version number of the full version than what the library update requires, it should only install library updates in case you explicitely confirm an "this library version requires Kontakt XYZ" message.
Those very updates should be excluded from the "Update All" function.
The required Kontakt version number for the available update should show up very clearly on the library page itself without having to go into the detailed information page.

In addition (already posted a dedicated thread, but just to make sure…), the manual downloads from the Download Manager should defenitely show the Kontakt version requirements.

After all, theres loads of folks who were running into issues with all this, myself included - and I consider myself rather tech savy.

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Comments

PK The DJ

Although I understand your point, and I agree that the Native Access software should ideally be a little smarter in what is shown, based on the versions installed - I think it needs clarifying that Native Access never installs anything. The decision on whether to install an update or not is taken by the user.

Vocalpoint

"The decision on whether to install an update or not is taken by the user."

Nailed it.

Have never installed (or ruined) anything in my layout due to Native Access. Simply read the Release Notes on any product that is flashing that "1" icon - and make your decision. Easy.

If you are simply clicking Install All - without reading (or checking) anything - you are allowing Native Access to simply run roughshod over your install and will need to be OK with the end result.

SaschaFranck

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238405#Comment_238405

This is largely semantics. I know it doesn't install anything on its own, but it should still tell you whether the updates are even compatible with the Kontakt version you're using. Sometimes even the detailed infos simply don't. And IMO it should even go beyond that (see first post). I would just like to click the "Update All" button every once in a while, but that will just mess up most libraries for me.

SaschaFranck

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238406#Comment_238406

As said, sometimes the release notes don't provide any relevant information.

And in case I need to read every single release information (which, as said, sometimes aren't accurate), the entire "Update All" thing is pointless anyway.

SaschaFranck

And btw, on the initial install of Komplete on my Macbook Air last year, NA installed libraries that I couldn't load at all anymore (unless I'd install the Player version of K7), without alternate installers available. That's simply inacceptable.

PK The DJ

"I know it doesn't install anything on its own"

In that case, you should not have written "It (Native Access) should never install" or "it installs them" or "it should only install" - because "it" (Native Access) doesn't install them.

Call it semantics if you want, but IMO it's clarity/clarification on how Native Access works, to prevent misunderstandings.

SaschaFranck

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238410#Comment_238410

It's still semantics because it's very clear what is meant.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238412#Comment_238412

The only thing that is clear - is when using NA - you pressing Install - and then it installs.

And I am not buying the lack of release notes either. Been using Native Access/Service Center etc for decades and if the release notes are non existent or not clear - I move to my own research to ensure an update is viable. A quick ask in the forums usually gives me all I need in a half hour or so.

There is no update that has ever been delivered that is an emergency to install. They all can wait.

Bottom line - if you are expecting NA to be rewritten to be able to cleanly navigate, advise and warn every user worldwide on what to do (and what not to do) for the thousands of different products this manager can handle - and the millions upon millions of configurations in existence - you will be waiting a long time.

SaschaFranck

I know I'll wait for a long time. Because nobody at NI seems to care much anymore.

Whatever, countless users running into these issues should be a clear sign it's not all fine and dandy.

And as said, on my initial install there was no research, no proper info and no nothing. So I ended up with quite some libraries requiring me to install Kontakt 7, which I didn't want to.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238416#Comment_238416

You did no research whatsoever (like something simple like firing a question to us here in the forums) but decided to install them anyway? And then blame NA for that?

Is it just me or does that not make a lot of sense?

SaschaFranck

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238418#Comment_238418

Did you read what I said about my initial install?

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238419#Comment_238419

Of course I did.

But regardless of what "kind" of installation it is - the "research" part never changes.

Do you think if I was building a new DAW (from scratch) with a new PC and no NI software on it at all - that I would just install NA and hit Install All?

My initial NA install/update routines - are the same as any other update. Fire up NA. See the little "x" updates icon light up in the upper left. Find each product in NA, right click and check Release Notes. If there are none - hit the forums. If that turns up nothing - hit the Internet. If that turns up nothing - do nothing and move on to the next product.

Since I require a fully functional DAW at all times - this is all on me.

There is no room for errors, lack of study, assuming any update actually works, impatience or pressing Install All. And I am certainly not going to wait for NI to rewrite NA from scratch so it holds my hand during my installs.

NA is just a tool and I am not disagreeing with you - it is a tool full of twists, turns, poor design and lots of potential trouble if you allow it to override your standard checks and balances.

Don't allow it to do anything until you say it can. Hasn't failed me yet.

SaschaFranck

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/238421#Comment_238421

You still don't seem to understand, though. Back when I did the initial Komplete install, no research would've helped me. The only installation options have been libraries that wouldn't run in my version of Kontakt. So even if I had a look into the release notes, what would've been my options? Right, none. Ok, I was then installing K7P, but that wasn't something I wanted (and still don't want, even if I keep 7P and 8P installed for the time being, my ultimate goal is to get rid of anything NI one day…).

And fwiw, NI only added the download manager later on. And for a while before that, they supplied the older versions via GoogleDrive (which is quite pathetic already), let alone the information was deeply hidden in this very forum.

Fortunately, I still had my old machine present, but the working libraries on it haven't been of much help, either, as you can't easily replace the newer versions with them. Had to look up a 3rd party tool called "Add Library" or so, which did the job.

For a company trying to be an established player, all of that is completely inacceptable.

PK The DJ

You need to be clearer. WHICH version of Kontakt are you talking about (that you were using prior to your installation of Komplete)? Which version of Komplete did you install?

What I can't understand is - Komplete includes Kontakt, so by installing Komplete surely you would have had the Kontakt version required to use the Komplete products, no?

Unless you bought a version of Kontakt that was incomaptible with your machine spec, because you didn't check the system requirements…

I'd advise putting some details in your profile of your computer and you NI products.

Vocalpoint

"You still don't seem to understand, though. Back when I did the initial Komplete install, no research would've helped me. "The only installation options have been libraries that wouldn't run in my version of Kontakt"

What does this even mean? How would you have ANY version of Kontakt on a machine - when there is nothing even on the machine during an "initial" Komplete install?

Why couldn't you simply choose the right version of Kontakt - from the start of your "initial" install?

I guess I need you to clarify - in great detail please - exactly what you mean by "my version of Kontakt"

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