Just uploaded a Velvet Noise Reverb to the user library

colB
colB Member Posts: 1,092 Guru
edited June 24 in Reaktor

This came out of a discussion over on the NI Reaktor discord. Thanks to grrdjf.

Velour.PNG

Based on the paper:
"Late-Reverberation Synthesis using Interleaved Velvet-Noise Sequences"
by Vesa Valimaki and Karolina Prawda.

The basic idea is that so called velvet noise is perceptually similar to white noise, but many (e.g. > 90%) of the samples are zero. This makes brute force convolution viable.

A clever trick using multiple channels of pre recorded 'frozen noise' in co-prime lengths, enables the separation of the convolution section from the decay section. This means the decay section is very cheap to implement, so it can be duplicated multiple times for flexible filtering that is completely decoupled from the decay time(s)

It is not perfect - and no doubt this implementation is less than ideal, but the potential issues here are different from those in other well known digital reverb algorithms, so there will be things it is particularly well suited to and some that it is not.

The precise control over decay and level for different frequency bands is fantastic in a sound design context.

Some decay times with some parameter settings do exhibit some mild cyclical artefacts in the reverb tail, but these can be minimised (or maximised if you like) by tuning the settings, and are usually only noticeable if you listen for them.

Suggestions and questions are welcome

please leave a comment in the UL :)

Comments

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 744 Pro

    I bet it's good, time for bed but I'll get back with ya later. I listened to it with some pink noise for a bit and it sounds pretty mellow. Definitely something different going on there.

  • KoaN
    KoaN Member Posts: 155 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/46163/just-uploaded-a-velvet-noise-reverb-to-the-user-library

    Sounds very good and flexible. Would be nice to have a global decay linked to the 4 ones…sounds natural and good when you change the value,would be good for modulation.

  • colB
    colB Member Posts: 1,092 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/231915#Comment_231915

    I need to have a think about that.

    Earlier in development, I was using a master decay time, and then each of the bands had a control that was proportional to that master time. Seems like a no brainer. However it was not great in practice. The problem was that dialling in a good verb seems to depend a lot on nailing the shorter decays, particularly on the lows and highs. So most of the time, I would adjust the main, then have to manually re adjust the low and high, and sometimes one of the mid controls. Just no good.

    Then you also get in to situations where to avoid that problem, you don't have any of the band decays on max, so the master reads 20 secs, but the actual decay is 9 secs because all the settings are a small proportion… it was just no good.

    I might be possible to try some approach where the 'master' slaves to whichever is the longest of the four band decays. And then scale the others proportionally with some sort of curve rather than linearly… So if the Master is on 5 seconds and you add a second, each of the others is increased by 20% not by a second. Not sure if that will be any good though. maybe maybe not. I'll report back if/when I get around to trying that out.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 744 Pro

    Thanks a lot Colin, this is outstanding. Swapped out verbs on a current project with it and loved it. The parameters for reverb time for each band is very useful. Not sure what the attack does on the top right but it sure sounds good.

  • KoaN
    KoaN Member Posts: 155 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/231972#Comment_231972

    Maybe you could decide which of the 4 decays links to the master one,for example if you don't want it to touch the first one but only the 3 others. A link switch to each decay to the master.

    But yah,i tend to see everything in terms of sound design,i don't use reverbs the conventional way most of the time,i like them to be dynamic.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,278 mod
    edited June 25

    Thank you colB 🙂. You always makes me wish that I was as good as you are at N.I. Reaktor , in the same manner that the existence of the Reaktor 6 itself makes me wish that I used the product a lot more - because IMO it is a really great product - which people like you are so great at demonstrating 🙂

    At other people , here is the link for Velour Reverb - A velvet noise based reverberator (Author: Colin Brown)

    .

  • KoaN
    KoaN Member Posts: 155 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/232016#Comment_232016

    I wonder how would sound a control on the processing clockrate of the reverb,you know the type of effect where the lower clock rate will lengthen the delay and add some lofi,you had that i think in your bucket delay…also very common in the modular world to have that type of control.

    Might not be what you are aiming for though,maybe you prefer to keep it simple.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 744 Pro
    Velour_v1_0.zip

    No complaints, made a short recording, sounds as good as some convolution verbs.

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