Manually Trigger Patterns in Maschine 3 like Ableton or Logic (always starting from bar 1)

coroneddu
coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member
edited January 20 in Maschine

hellow!

I just got back a Maschine Mk3 again and I'm having lotsa fun (again) using it as a sketchpad

Was wondering if it's possible to trigger clips manually that would start on the next bar and from the beginning of the incoming clip, like it happens in Ableton or, nowadays, Logic?

Would love to remix things on the fly and record the perfomance via another group/internal/Master

Give u an example: I recorded a long swell on my external Hydrasynth (beat duration is set to free) but if I'm in the 6th bar of a beat and I want to launch that Hydra clip, it starts abruptly in its 6th bar.

I would love that Hydra pattern to start from it bar 1, regardless of where the playhead is

Is this actually possible? if so is there any specific setting?

Mucho thanks for any insight

Best Answer

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member
    edited January 21 Answer ✓

    Scenes are kind of ok but they don't do what I'm after.

    I can retrigger the scenes from bar 1

    I cannot retrigger patterns from bar 1 :)

    Often I want to craft the arrangement on the fly and trigger new patterns (not scenes) on the go like I used to do in Logic

    In Logic if something is playing and you want to layer another pattern:

    • click on the pattern but Logic will wait on the next available bar (Maschine can do it)
    • the new pattern will start from the beginning (Maschine cannot do it)

    hope that makes sense

    PS: and please if I'm missing anything I beg you to let me know XD

«1

Answers

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,793 Expert

    In Maschine only Scenes can have quantized triggering. Patterns don’t have this option (don’t ask me why…specially since users have been asking this from….forever…)

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 816 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204991#Comment_204991

    i personally prefer patterns or scene to kick in when i press the button, if using with a DAW, one can set a loop-point & then a note message to a marker that can trigger the necessary scene/pattern/lock when it crosses…

    mind you, some DAW's do this, some dont *winx

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member

    Kinda suspected that and I'm quite amazed that, in a pattern based system like Maschine software, there's no such basic option

    Considering how pleasant and streamlined is the workflow within Maschine (sw & hw), I would have loved to record my performances but since I don't work primarily with beats/loops but rather in a more open structures (different bar lengths, less "boxed in" arrangements etc...)

    Said so, I keep wondering if there's a workaround.

    Dunno why but I still think there might be a way, also because I just got it and I'm no expert yet

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,793 Expert
    edited January 20
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205011#Comment_205011

    I prefer them too (in most cases, it depends on what I am doing).

    But this doesn’t mean I would not like to have the choice. It would be a setting, an option, so everyone could use it as they wish (or even better, use it one time like this, one time like that, depending on the needs of that moment).

    I think that kind of setting choice is more about live use than with a DAW, setting loops and midi notes and so on and so forth. It’s a preprogrammed vs spontaneity thing.

    Btw: patterns can’t be launched with a midi note from a DAW

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,793 Expert
    edited January 20
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205041#Comment_205041

    I’m afraid the workaround is having a perfect timing.

    Maybe that’s why they did it: to train our timing. 😂

    Well…thank you NI…that skill became very handy later with loopers 👍🏼 (which now have quantized recording/launching too…so… “learn the art and put it aside” 😂)

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 816 Pro
    edited January 20
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205043#Comment_205043

    depending upon the DAW…. a custom action where it carries out multiple automated actions sequentially is possible with Reaper… thus making the spontaneity an actual reality

    simply put a midi button can be assigned to put a marker with a note message, in any of 16beats making alot of things possible where many other DAW's have shortcomings, but i digress

    Reaper also has seeking on a bar level or beat level *shrugs…

    many ways to skin a cat, when you use the right tool!

    edit: another useful action i found in reaper which i thought was neat…

    is the jump back/forward that you have with maschine….

    this overcomes the issue when using midi sync/ableton link, when the Jumpback/forward in maschine is disabled when syncing (which translates to moving the timeline in maschine while syncd)

    im always suprised at the scripts provided by the community in Reaper… theres so many to sift through, but what i have often found, is that where issues exist with the Maschine shortcomings, i have found various workarounds due to the flexible nature of Reaper…

    most Flexible Daw on the planet!! True story LOL

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,793 Expert
    edited January 20

    But…wouldn’t it be easier if NI would put it directly? 😂

    In any case…I don’t know what NI has “against” patterns…

    Many things are strange… Another example being Scenes, Lockstates and Sections able to be triggered by midi…but Patterns not 😶

    Maybe they wanted to sell more Maschine Jams… but… what about now? If you don’t sell Jam anymore, let us midi learn patterns’ changes… (and…while on it, add quantized launch 😉)

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 816 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205047#Comment_205047

    i find it amusing expecting NI to do anything, that might make things easier, like seeking at the end of a pattern!!

    better solving the issue yourself, than waiting for rain to come to the sahara… you of all people know this better than i do *smiles

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member
    edited January 20

    Interesting insights but I don't think I've explained myself clearly enough 😊

    The workaround I'm looking for is not to be able to trigger patterns per se. It's already possible via the patterns area

    It's about making sure, anytime I trigger a pattern, it starts from the beginning of that pattern

    A simple scenario

    • Pattern 1: beat-MIDI-loop (8bars)
    • Pattern 2: hydasynth-AUDIO-loop (27bars)

    Pattern 1 is playing on a loop, it's currently at bar 6

    While I'm recording the performance, at the end of the beat cycle (8bars), I want to launch the Hydra pattern (I've got a solid timing since I'm a drummer by trade so that's not an issue for me)

    Now, what will happen is that the hydra pattern, when I launch it, it will start playback from bar 9 (where the playhead currently is)

    I'm looking for a way to have the hydra pattern 2 to always start from the beginning, no matter when I decide to trigger that pattern during the performance, while the 8bars beat (pattern1) keeps playing undisturbed

    So this up here is the only goal

    Thing is we already have a retrigger function but it only works on scenes

    I wonder if, by organizing scenes with lateral thinking and placing patterns in a non conventional way, I might be able to exploit that function.

    I dont think it's possible since any existing pattern will be reset and that's not what I'm after, but as soon as I get back home I'll experiment a bit deeper

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205054#Comment_205054

    Woah what do you mean by "solve it yourself"?

    Is the maschine environment scriptable by any chance?

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 816 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/205064#Comment_205064

    i suppose there is some limited capacity for scripting within maschine…. ie… modifying the user interface controls as shown in this video…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GM-r7lhV9I

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 816 Pro
    edited January 20

    when i referenced doing it yourself… i was thinking in the lines of using the DAW/Maschine VST approach… where there are ways of making the Maschine follow the DAW timeline and actions

    how much added control this entails is dependant on Daw… and other tools you use in conjucntion with Maschine… (Reaper is scriptable using lua/eel, although this will not always translate across to maschine, how much translation over to maschine depends solely on how the DAW interacts with Maschine)

    if one is looking to use some simplified script based solutions on a looping setup where the loop is set inside Reaper & Maschine in turn follows the Loop range… the translation of actions upon Reapers time timeline will affect Maschine directly…. one can always use chatGPT to carry out the scripting too… not that it would be necessary for your use case using "Seeking til end of bar x" a series of simple custom action might be just as effective… but this all revolves around how good a DAW is to provide that flexibility

    as far as maschine in stand-alone mode…. you will be limited to wysiwyg

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member

    Thank you so much

    could deffo do it in my DAW (Nuendo) by simply recording dope patterns/takes, export them quick and then arrange them in Nuendo's timeline

    I just wanted to perform these inside Maschine since it's so slick and pleasant to work with when it comes to creating arrangements on the fly, everything is already mapped etc…

    I'm so surprised they didn't make the "retrigger" function available for patterns.

    Maschine software is, in my experience, designed very cleverly and I can't imagine the same clever software engineers/production people why they wouldn't add this feature in purely pattern based environment. And it should super easy to code as well. (I work in game dev and I have been dealing with code for 15 years)

    The only thing that comes to mind is an old theory of mine about DAW manufacturers: among all of them, there is an implicit rule not to "steal" certain functions among their respective DAWs.

    Like this one, which already exists in Maschine itself, Live and now Logic (even improved). And it's easy to implement.

    But also Logic's "Add Tail" function checkbox compared to the ridiculously cumbersome Cubase/Nuendo Render menu which includes a whole bunch of redundant options such as "select how many bars you want the tail to last for" or even in seconds, which forces you to listen to each region and make up the seconds/bars yourself (or make a much longer,safe range but then you're forced to edit all the regions to cut the unnecessary silence and re-export all the regions one more time).

    While Logic asks you to check one box (that's it) and extends the tail range until it reaches -infdB. Done.

    It's a theory, but I'm fully aware that only smart, experienced people are capable to design complex softwares like a DAW and working everyday to make things as streamlined and with less steps as possible.

    Anyways, thanks again for your insights :)

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,793 Expert
    edited January 21

    Edit: I misunderstood and wrote something wrong

  • coroneddu
    coroneddu Member Posts: 21 Member
    edited January 21 Answer ✓

    Scenes are kind of ok but they don't do what I'm after.

    I can retrigger the scenes from bar 1

    I cannot retrigger patterns from bar 1 :)

    Often I want to craft the arrangement on the fly and trigger new patterns (not scenes) on the go like I used to do in Logic

    In Logic if something is playing and you want to layer another pattern:

    • click on the pattern but Logic will wait on the next available bar (Maschine can do it)
    • the new pattern will start from the beginning (Maschine cannot do it)

    hope that makes sense

    PS: and please if I'm missing anything I beg you to let me know XD

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