Programming synths from M+

Matthewsavant · 2024-12-08T02:49:03+00:00

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just bought the Maschine plus, I used to used Maschine back in 2009 I bought it day one and I loved it..after years in the Elektron realm I decided to get back into Maschine since I got along with the MK1 version so well. What I was hoping for was essentially what Maschine used to be but standalone and I’m ver pleasantly surprised at how much more it is. Essentially I just wanted a standalone drum machine for coming up with beats and bass and general. I think it suites that purpose very well but there is one thing I am majorly disappointed with. I knew that it ran some of NI’s synthesizers natively and I was excited at that prospect but now that I have it I see that it’s essentially just a preset player with macros…I have zero use for that. I wouldn’t even care if programming on massive involved tons of menu diving, that’s what I expected given the 8 knob interface…but for some ungodly reason they’ve restricted which controls you can access? …I don’t get it; if the synthesizer is running then I want access to all the controls so I can program patches from init. There’s no point otherwise. I know there’s the poly synth and bass synth but obviously those are way scaled down, monark is okay too seems like all the parameters are there for that one too but it’s just a Minimoog clone so it’s also very limited…what the hell is going on with native to give us these plugins but not the ability to program them? Is there something I’m missing or templates I can download or something?
I plan on using Maschine plus exclusively in standalone mode I have no need to connect it to a computer, I like to write in hardware and arrange/mix/master in Ableton. Even without the ability to properly use the synthesizers I still quite like Maschine as a drum machine/sampler, I reorganized my entire custom sample library to comply with the bizarre two folder system and I cleared out the built in samples so just when it’s ready for me to actually dive in and start writing I find out the built in synths are useless, I hope I’m wrong and I’m missing something.

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Psyearth5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/196781#Comment_196781

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/196564#Comment_196564

assuming is positive only when you are achieving something in the Music, something we call success a growth with your authentic way but even then you must be aware that nothing is so stable offering such level of security. everything is happening in a massive a crowded way and only the some stay as relevant.

it`s clear what you want and it is possible with ether planning or using controls feature from the latest Massive version with new INT patch.

i have music from 2009. that was made completely using Massive onley and for someone who is first time listening it`s impossible but everything is possible. presets are separated by categories so every wave table is available in standalone . i made my own synth using simple shape chord desinhg it to last forever with harmonics and sonic textures recreating granular synth and 4 samplers with one same sample and that`s Sound Design. creating massive patches without computer is possible, if USB storage is like every other USB device i could capture Videos with best sound quality without live mic recording.

massive is enough for everything and someone was already designed it in a such way. as a Feature it`s what i support so recommend it as a Feature but ther`s always be someone who is using it better or without excuse for not trying.

i have MIDI device with completely mapped any vst and it`s far a way from ideal or what i was thinking before i get it. it`s basics always with exception of personal preferences like Wave Tables-shapes, filter types but everything is working only as Audio including Kicks.

i would make tutorials but if i could transfer Audio directly to mobile phone to show you much more easier way to use 4 sec Recordings with better usability as instrument/fx/ whatever. it`s what back in days was only possibtiy when samplers had Floppi…even then wave shapes were used, maybe it was straightforward how because nothing else was producing them and all we had were 4-10sec per sound. Microwaves were something not popular and yet Mushrooms or Astral,Electric Universe, Shacta,MFG ect were ALiEN SOUND ing projects but always Audio that was playing bass, kick, leads and stability of FX in M+ is what`s making them multi fx because two FM fx in chain are precisely what is the goal and same is with every standalone plugin including Massive with factory presets banks.

general sound design is something older and most expensive.

Controlling Wave Shape wont be so much exptional but is faster way for radical results. it`s not a Science, it`s just convenient way for creating dynamic morph directly on synth. Nature is never ending morphing with Cities it`s crazy…

Massive only Trance made under the 10 min. MOBILE REC. everything else was my inspiration.

https://youtu.be/UwJw0bS4zJ0?si=meThK3Ru3LgVrAmr

i do Automation with lock states, sometimes i play them and record or i just place states on linear time line.

I believe you can do much more using available ways and M+ is easy to navigate, sound design and resampling techniques for making otherwise impossible to create sounds.

lock States are the secret for impossible. basic Massive preset can morph with wave position , filter`s and soon New INT Preset with knobs for wave, alghoritm and everything separated by pages dedicated to OSC1,2,3,MOD ect.

everything is possible.

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199247#Comment_199247

well I got reaktor w/ maschine, Not really interested in making my own synths (other than with modular). No I don't use pre-made samples, I sample and create my own sounds from scratch, with the one exception of samples that are genre specific/nods to the genre itself, it depends on what I'm making at the time and as far as sampling goes I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all because when done properly sampling in itself is an artform. I think you're missing my point, though…I'm saying that's what I do personally and what I've said about people who only use sample packs/loops/midi packs/presets primarily is my opinion…not some rule, do what you want and enjoy it but at the same time you can't expect everyone to agree with it or respect it, that's just life. and again I wouldn't go around telling people what to do or how to do it I couldn't care less what other people do with their gear but if the subject of presets and sample packs comes up then sure I have an opinion about it. But I mean at the same time like I said before if people didn't use sample packs then I wouldn't have been able to do this for a living so idk man it all balances out. It doesn't make sense to see someone's opinion on a subject as like a personal attack though I mean I've been around people that don't consider electronic music to be real music or other drummers who don't think that using drum machines is respectable…I firmly disagree with both of those statements and an electronic musician and a drummer but I couldn't care less if some random person doesn't agree with me or respect what I do you know what I mean?

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199257#Comment_199257

I get that same feeling man. Whatever this new direction or buyout or whatever happened with NI it's clear to me that selling sounds and controllers has become the main priority over making and selling Instruments.

On another note I did find your M+ TONIC ens and it's awesome! I went though every page of that thread and downloaded everything so I now finally have a halfway decent offering of actual programmable instruments in M+,

At the moment what I have running in standalone and fully controllable is:

Instruments:
M+ TONIC/Juno60/Moog prodigy/Nordlead2/JP8000/Operator/Super5/Tritum/Uranos/MonoFM

Effects:

Space echo/VHS/some random filters, compressors and other things I haven't gone though yet

some are good, some are terrible but they're all useful.

In particular the Nord and JP8000 stand out as they actually show up as their own thing and not just generic under reaktor patches I don't know how they were made that makes them different but they seem very polished. My favorites so far are, M+TONIC, MonoFM, Nordlead2, Space echo and VHS

the big thing I'm missing now is a nice wavetable based workhorse synth.

It's actually very impressive how much potential is here, Maschine Plus running Reaktor ensembles opens up a huge range of possibilities that could not only fill but exceed the huge gap that is missing in Maschine plus out of the box.

I'm actually surprised that none of the mutable instruments stuff has made it's way into Reaktor and M+ since it's open source and it's made it's way into seemingly everything else. I could easily see a Plaits based Reaktor synth and a Clouds based reaktor effect same with Rings, They've even made their way into user OSC and FX in the korg minilouge XD.

el-bo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199375#Comment_199375

Snobbery in art is so last century. But you seem to wear it well.

tetsuneko

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199287#Comment_199287

Sorry but I'm not going to post unfinished ensembles to the RUL. Its too chock full of useless stuff as it is. Clonetonic and melotonic are already on there, and M+TONIC is just a fork of that work (minus the custom UIs).

Furthermore, posting stuff to the RUL doesnt exactly boost engagement at the forums.. its a silo all into itself. Heck, even the folks @ NI do not update it anymore 😅 It's been over a year since a NI rep told us they'd try to add a "Maschine+" tag in there..

tetsuneko

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199380#Comment_199380

The Nord & JP ensembles probably utilize the entire NKS featureset to their advantage. I think its a matter of adding a bank info to the ens in reaktor, although I might misremember what the field is actually called..

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199436#Comment_199436

I know having a strong opinion and critique on anything is so passe these days but what can I say, I'm a man who is passionate about art.

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199465#Comment_199465

hmm okay cool, I'm actually starting to educate myself a bit about Reaktor just because I so badly want to get as many cool instruments and effects up and running and properly mapped in Maschine plus as possible. I'm going though some tutorials now just so I understand the basics, that way the "ultimate magic way to get reaktor instruments in mashcine" post will make a bit more sense to me and when I inevitably run into getting some things mapped and working I'll at least know where to start troubleshooting.

tetsuneko

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199549#Comment_199549

You dont need to watch videos to do it. Its basically all about making NKS compatible content using NIs tools at the end of the day.

I've outlined how I personally do M+ optimization for Reaktor stuff in the community thread.

Make sure all your IDs of the Reaktor ensemble you want to control are in the range of 01-99
Make sure all your IDs have names and short names (this will autogenerate "sane" param labels for Maschine side, which you can of course edit further)
Make sure all your controls you want to change in Maschine are standard Reaktor UI elements - faders, knobs, buttons, menus. Other types of controls might or might not work
Make sure your Reaktor ensemble is correctly defined as an "instrument" or "fx"
Create at least a single snapshot for the ensemble (I like to name mine with the device name followed by INIT)
Once you have "baked" your ens, open it up in Maschine desktop, map the controls to their respective pages. Label your pages in Maschine so they will also display on the M+
Once you have a mapping you are happy with, Save the sound and quit Maschine
Open Reaktor, then open the Maschine sound you just saved into Reaktor
Save the opened Maschine sound as a Reaktor ensemble (this process will embed the NKS mappings to the ens file)
copy over to your SD card into the appropriate subfolder

This was just going off from memory, I might have missed something, but this should be it for the most part. Its easy enough once you do it a few times, but can be a bit laborous

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199850#Comment_199850

Hell yes. Thanks a lot I really appreciate it, I'm going to dig into it over the next few days

el-bo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/199546#Comment_199546

Is it your first week on the internet?

The inference that strong passionate opinions and critique is somewhat a rarity these days suggests it might be ;)

Anyway, probably best to leave it there.

Happy new year!

Matthewsavant

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/200554#Comment_200554

Cool, thanks for hijacking my thread to both give and ask for opinions that literally have nothing to do with the subject at hand and do nothing to drive the conversation forward.

All I want to do is fill my Maschine plus with capable synths and effects that actually allow me to create stuff from scratch not just pick presets.

el-bo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/208034#Comment_208034

Hijacking your thread?

Not only did I point you to Blezz Beats' solution, within a few replies of you starting the thread, but when you complained that it wasn't what you were looking for, I then linked you to a developer who was making Reaktor synths, from scratch. That seems to be very much on-topic. Even the diversion to do with preset use and snobbery seems on-topic, given it seems to have originated from you 'poppin' your collar' re: using from-scratch presets only.

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