What will happen with Clips?

olafmol
olafmol Member Posts: 215 Pro
edited November 2024 in Maschine

Hello, now Maschine 3.0 is out the door, i'm very curious about what will happen with Clips.

Most users agree that Clips is a very powerful idea, but is implemented half-baked and clunky. As it currently stands, it's rather confusing and unclear how to effectively use them.

But the interesting thing is that it "only" requires a few smart usability and UX tweaks here and there for clips to start making sense and delivering on their promise.

So i'm wondering what the plans are for Clips in Maschine 3: will they be removed? Will they be orphaned and just kept as they are, confusing the hell out of people, or will they be "fixed" and actually make useful and easy to use?

What do you guys/girls think? What would you think about the current implementation of clips, and where they could/should go, and how?

Comments

  • AdelV
    AdelV Member Posts: 373 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/38145/what-will-happen-with-clips

    Maschine 3 is a evolution, not revolution. Where did you read about clips removal? AFIK clips are here and will stay. Maschine 3 is only removing support for MK2 controllers but besides this - everything stay on site.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 807 Expert
    edited November 2024

    This PDF is the best documentation I've found for using Clips so far:

    https://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downloads/manuals/maschine/MASCHINE_Addendum_2_12_English_30_09_2020.pdf

    The biggest confusion to me with regards to clips is, they can only be used in the Ideas/Arranger views.. I almost never use these views ;)

  • Lionzinio
    Lionzinio Member Posts: 132 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188777#Comment_188777

    Not true. Clips can ONLY be used in Song view.

    That aside, they are very confusing and clearly a bit of a kludge to get around the very blocky nature of Maschine's Song structure. And the fact that you can't simply place Patterns anywhere you want to along the timeline.

    They're also not things that are easy to create and use from the hardware, which reiterates one of the single biggest drawbacks of Maschine 3.0, namely that it appears to be being developed as software that exists beyond the Maschine hardware, rather than software that is there to make the hardware work.

    1. Here are the features of Clips:
      • Clips exist only in Song view. Clips can be used in addition to Patterns. They are great for add- ing, for example, one-shot sounds, transitions, and vocal, etc.
      • Unlike Patterns, they are unique entities that can be freely positioned and moved across the timeline of the arranger in the Song view.
      • If you copy a Clip to multiple places and change one Clip, only the one you edited will be changed.
      • Theycanbepartofasection,butcanalsoexistoutsideasectionorspanacrossmultipleSec- tions.
      • Whenever a Clip is placed on top of a Pattern, you will only hear the Clip.
      • In Song view, Clips appear in a fully saturated color, while Patterns will have a slightly dimmed color state.

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 215 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188774#Comment_188774

    Where did you read that I said clips will be removed??? i'm confused ;)

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 215 Pro

    Good to get the discussion started, let's try and focus on "what could/should be" regarding clips (and not how they are currently working, or not, although this discussion already is a clear proof for the lacking implementation of current clips)

  • AdelV
    AdelV Member Posts: 373 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188792#Comment_188792

    Ok, my bad. sorry.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 807 Expert
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188782#Comment_188782

    Clips do also exist in the Ideas view, do they not?

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 455 Guru
    edited November 2024
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/188821#Comment_188821

    No. It's a song mode thing only. Ideas mode gives you patterns and scenes. Patterns go in to scenes. Scenes go into sections in song mode. Clips are a layer above sections.

    The implementation is kind of neat. Imagine you have a bunch of scenes that send midi to hardware. You then record to audio and create a clip that's the length of the project. The clip is on top of the sections containing your scenes. Insert the audio.

    The clip takes precedence over the scenes (i.e. you're hearing the audio recording instead of triggering your hardware). Flip back to ideas view and you're back to sending midi to your hardware.

    I do this in my DAW by using an instrument track as the return from my hardware. It routes to a group. I put effects on the group. I can then render to audio. The audio routes to the same group. Disable the midi and now I'm just listening to the recording; but I can go back if needed. Clips in maschine handles this workflow in such an elegant way.

    …but I think that's just a side effect of how they were implemented. It seems the goal was simply to have a function for people that didn't like the idea of working with a pattern based workflow. Insert a scene. Convert one of the patterns to a clip. It's no longer linked to the original pattern. It's now a unique element. Make changes to the clip. Now go back into ideas view and listen to the scene. You're not going to hear the changes.

    I don't use ableton, so I'm not sure how it works. Bitwig has a section to create patterns and scenes (i.e. clip launcher). If I drag one to the timeline, it creates a unique element. Making changes to the item in the timeline doesn't change what's in the clip launcher. Maschine is more like old school groove boxes where you make a bunch of patterns and then chain them; though it's an advanced implementation. It seems they were trying to have both concepts in a single system when they introduced clips.

    Maschine's song mode/arranger is "pattern chaining" from traditional grooveboxes. It's never been the linear sequencing you see in a DAW. Clips are placed on a layer above that. They're a shift from the fundamental workflow design of maschine.

    Personally, I lean towards using the "groovebox" design of maschine. I wouldn't care about clips if the devs didn't make it so easily to accidentally find myself in "clip mode"

  • Paul Opp
    Paul Opp Member Posts: 55 Member

    I use clips to komplete my song structure. Seems to work ok for me.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 125 Advisor

    As an entities independent from scenes which can be placed at any position in song clips a fine both as idea and implementation. There is no need to reinvent them. They just work and perform their intended function. Of course as in any M+ feature there were some bugs, but i hope they are fixed already (need to check though)

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