Feature Request: Internal Mixing With External Outputs

Veiss · 2024-09-20T17:29:31+00:00

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Simply the ability to continue to use the deck volume faders whilst routing each deck to its own external output enabling inter-application audio mixing utilizing VB Cable virtual audio routing or similar virtual audio like JackAudio. The faders go away as soon as you enable external mixing mode and you don't have the option to route each deck in Internal mixing mode.

I'd like to be able to utilize a DAW, Ableton or Bitwig in this case to receive deck outputs but not have to control their volumes from the DAW because then I lose the ability to keep the MIDI controller locked to Traktor instead of the DAW. Sometimes I prefer to use an X1 MK3 with a custom map and still utilize the screen feedback for rotary mixing with the encoders.

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Sûlherokhh

TP 3.11.1 still has this ability.

Veiss

Are you sure? Enabling external mixing removes the faders to mix internally in TP3 and 4.

Sûlherokhh

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/178812#Comment_178812

This is a quote from the update thread:

3.11.1 - 2024-01-30
…
FIXED Controller channel volume malfunction
The volume faders on the S2 MK3, S4 MK3, S3 and S5 no longer affect the channel volumes when the software is running in External Mixer mode.

I don't consider the fixed bug a bug at all. All versions up and including 3.11.0 allowed the software (and aligned hardware) faders to still be used, even when external mixing mode is engaged.

Veiss

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/178822#Comment_178822

Can you tell me how the faders can still be used in external mode? The fader disappears (I need to still be able to see it to know the volume of a deck at a glance instead of looking at a hardware controller, which doesn't work for my case anyway cause I'm using an encoder.)

The mapping I have for the fader only works when the fader is there/in Internal mode.

Sûlherokhh

Do you still have Traktor Pro 3 installed?

Veiss

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/178828#Comment_178828

Yes, I do.

Sûlherokhh

Go into the Traktor 3 folder (among the programs/apps, not in the documents), from there into the Backup folder. You will find all your previous Traktor 3 versions there. Enter the folder with the latest 3.11.0 version. You will find an executable file which starts that version of Traktor, and it has those line faders usable even in External Mixer Mode.

Veiss

It's the same result using the 3.11.0.44 version in the backup folder.

I go into the application preferences and to the Output Routing section and change it to External under the Mixing Mode section, then the faders on the track decks disappear. I've used several versions of 2 and 3 in the past and this has always been the case in my experience.

Sûlherokhh

You can go into Preferences → Mixer to enable several GUI (and controller) control sections, including the channel mixer.

Veiss

Right, but you can't enable the fader itself. There's only the EQ + Fader option under Mixer Layout which controls weather the whole whole fader strip is shown or not. I don't think it's possible to actually enable internal mixing/fader control whilst in external mixing mode.

Sûlherokhh

The checkboxes on the Mixer Page are for 'active' section.

The Layout (wether or not the Mixer section is 'visible' in the GUI) is selected on a different Preferences pane and has no influence on actively using an element of the channel strip.

Those are two different things, so …

There's only the EQ + Fader option under Mixer Layout which controls weather the whole whole fader strip is shown or not.

You are exactly wrong (see above). Check the box and it will work.

Veiss

So where is this check box that enables the faders whilst in external mode? Why not just tell me where it is instead of skirting around the supposed answer?

Post a screenshot of external mixing mode enabled and the faders visible.

Veiss

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/178873#Comment_178873

I think you might be "exactly wrong" bud…
Even ChatGPT thinks so…

I really wish you weren't though..

Sûlherokhh

That's really strange. I was so damn sure that i was able to use the line faders even in external mixing mode before 3.11.1, because i then was surprised that i couldn't switch decks while in auto-mixing mode using the line faders.

Happy to be proven wrong. But i am still confused. I have to test my old Traktor versions.

Here is one workaround.

Have the checkbox for active GUI gain control checked and map you faders to the gain control with the following details.
Assign every line fader to a seperate modifier (in my example, Deck A uses modifier 1. Type and Mode are Fader/Knob and Direct. This should cause the modifier to have a value of zero when down and 7 when up.
Assign every line fader two channel gain assignmnts.
First assignment is Type/Mode: Button, Direct, Value=0.00, modifier condition: Modifier#1 = 0 (Fader down makes gain go to lowest value)
Second assignment is Type/Mode: Fader/Knob, Relative. Value: 71% (Pulling the fader up slowly will increase gain up to a maximum value of +-0.0dB [position: 0.500])

Veiss

It's not quite the solution though since the gain knobs are still useful for adjusting the gain outside of mixing and are in a different part of the gain structure/signal path and I think they have a different gain scale. Maybe it'd work out gain wise with the right mappings, but It's important to see the fader position in relation to the strip and the adjacent decks.

The closest I've ever got to solving this is by utilizing inter-app MIDI to send control back into Traktor from the DAW to control these faders, but that's a messy situation since it involves combining MIDI devices with MIDI-OX and using loop-MIDI since I'm trying to do all this from a single X1 which ultimately from what I remember broke down in the Traktor mapping/ability to use the Traktor controller app functions - auto color feedback/screen feedback(track/FX etc.) .

I spoke to someone at NI support nearly 2 years ago about this and they didn't help at all and just stopped responding. I thought there was going to be some changes in the Controller Manager for Traktor 4, but I haven't seen anything listed in the new features for it.

Unfortunately I think this feature, like a hi-res GUI may be something NI just wont touch cause "the original code base is too old". (or something to that effect)

I really think this would be a meaningful feature for many users. The ability to continue using their Traktor controller with full functionality while routing to software inputs - Any DAW, streaming/broadcasting software, etc. Combining Traktor with a DAW in this regard opens up a lot of potential for more FX and multi-track/deck recording.

I'm using VB Matrix to combine all input and output audio interfaces and multiple VB Virtual Audio Cables to obtain my ideal routing setup and it's better/easier than anything I've used before. Ableton sits in the background open at all times with my base routing project and a Maschine Jam monitoring track/group feedback which have various applications routed to them ready to sample into clips at any moment. Using the same workflow with Traktor decks works great as well aside from the aforementioned caveat.
Matrix - Cables

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