MacOS KK S88 MkIII all midi/audio broken after changing from Midi 1->-2->1

verdammte · 2024-07-24T15:18:49+00:00

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I'm at a komplete loss on how to proceed from where I am. I recently swapped my m1 pro macbook for an M2 Max studio. All was fine with my novation 61SL and Sebaoard Rise 2. I then got the S88 MKIII this past week and it's now chaos.

I already have most of Native's audio libraries and engines, so the S88 seemed perfect with the weighted keys and full 88 keybed. I setup everything and followed all the directions (they aren't exactly complicated). I was having the usual issues with bipolar Native software, like Kontakt only sometimes automatically recognizing Native hardware and being…glitchy. I was also dealing with the Komplete Kontrol's usual borderline personality issues, like recognizing midi, but not audio, then suddenly working fine before breaking midi and audio. Toying with settings for a while resolved it. Things weren't totally smooth, but they were functional and I could work. I was only missing Pro Tools being able to communicate directly with the controller (DAW mode), so I thought I'd try MIDI 2.0 and enabled it…awful idea.

I honestly just wanted to see how well the implementation of the new protocol was going and if Logic or Pro Tools would show improvements with the glitchy native of Native software. Instead, it brought everything to a halt. Midi and audio aren't recognized in the DAWs, Kontakt, or KK, and Apple's MIDI studio keeps crashing the computer, with anything that uses midi often going nonresponsive and needing a force quit. The controller no longer works with MIDI 1.0 or 2.0.

I did delete the S88 from the MIDI studio before it turned back on when switching to MIDI 2.0. However, I cannot seem to get rid of the MIDI 2.0 version from the MIDI studio now that I've switched back. I'm thinking this may be the issue, but with the studio constantly crashing it's hard to diagnose and resolve. I also don't have any time machine restore points to use.

Help would be appreciated. I'd be fully content with going back to MIDI1.0 and staying there till these hiccups are resolved, which is my goal here. My suspicion is that the s88MKIII entry in the midi studio that has a MIDI2.0 out is why it's not working anymore.

-2023 Mac Studio w/M2 Max (12-core) and MacOS Sonoma 14.5

-Logic (current)

-Avid Pro Tolls (current)

-NI Kontrol s88 MkIII (latest firmware)

-Native Access w/all drivers/services/software/libraries installed

I'd had similar issues when moving to MIDI 2.0 this weekend, but was eventually able to get back to a functional MIDI1.0 setup. I don't know why I thought I'd have success trying it again after how bad it went the first time, but I did it anyway.

I'd also note the computer works fine with the exception of using the MIDI controller.

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verdammte

Oh, worth mentioning I got crazy frustrated and put the s** MKIII to the side for a bit and my Novation 61SL works perfectly fine with all of my DAWs (including Pro Tools even though it doesn't have predefined control surface configs like Komplete Kontrol does, sigh), so it's 100% the S88 or Native's software. Maybe a master reset and wiping all Native software from the computer? That'd be an ISP bandwidth and logistical nightmare, but maybe the best response?

Kymeia

I had similar problems testing out MIDI 2 in that it doesn't work and messed things up for a while but unlike you I was able to get back to how things were before by a) changing it back to MIDI 1 on the keyboard then b) changing it back in Logic - clearly MIDI 2 is not ready for use either in Kontrol or Logic or a bit of both

Kymeia

Oh I think I also had to delete something in the Audio/MIDI settings utility to get back to MIDI 1 - it created a MIDI 2 device that needed to be deleted before I could reset to MIDI 1 - try that.

verdammte

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/167969#Comment_167969

Yeah, I saw a handful on comments on various forums about eventual successes going back to MIDI1.0, with some fighting. I did also delete the s88 MKIII's MIDI2.0 entry in the MIDI studio, but that's when it started crashing constantly. Since then it keeps putting back the entry with a MIDI2.0 port output specified, so I still think that's the issue. The keyboard is 100% set to MIDI1.0, so that's where I got the reset idea.

I'm very happy to hear I did take the right steps within the mess of attempts I made to rectify things. That's a big relief and helps, even if it's not a solution to my issue. It does tell me this is not at all how it's supposed to be functioning as it currently is set to andit's nice to hear from someone else that MIDI2.0 isn't quite…ready.

<rant>The 2.0 specs are phenomenal, complete with "total backwards compatibility", by their own release statements. I worked in tech for over 10 years. This is absolutely not backwards compatible. The port itself via USB-C may be, but the firmware is not. If the countless software and data experts working in music, along with the hardware and software composition/production experts who've been here even longer, cannot figure out a friggen MIDI protocol, then it's not ready for the public. </rant>

Kymeia

It's not for sure - on paper it looks great but even in Logic which was one of the first DAWS to add 'support' it been pretty much broken since they added it. Hopefully in a couple of years it will all work (although I also think some people have unrealistic expectations of what it can do)

Matthew_NI

I would strongly advise all users to remain on MIDI 1 until further notice.

Simply put: the OS and DAW products aren't ready, even if they claim as much.

verdammte

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/168102#Comment_168102

Any recommendation on what I can do to fix the issue my post is about? My keyboard is now a $1400 brick when it comes to the Mac.

I have mixed feelings on seeing an employee say that. I certainly like the transparency here.

Matthew_NI

I would first try completely reinstalling:

KK3
K7
NI Hardware Connection Service

Then, I would also ensure you're on the absolute latest macOS patch available, as Apple fixed a number of instabilities including kernel panics, that were affecting us among others.

Then, I would also ensure you're in MIDI 1 mode on all devices.

Then, I would delete the KSMK3 entry in your MIDI device list, reboot the keyboard, and allow it to recognize and add again.

Then, I would also advise the use of a USB-C hub instead of connecting directly to the computer.

The last point is perhaps the most important. Some chipsets/model years of computer devices made by certain manufacturers contain a critical flaw in their USB-C implementation, that can affect any USB-C peripherals, including ours. Symptoms of the dropped data communication if it hits our keyboard include random freezing, disconnection, and crashing (on a USB-C display peripheral, it might be a glitch screen, or a hard drive might dismount etc).

d0stenning

Matthew_NI: <The last point is perhaps the most important. Some chipsets/model years of computer devices made by certain manufacturers contain a critical flaw in their USB-C implementation, that can affect any USB-C peripherals, including ours. Symptoms of the dropped data communication if it hits our keyboard include random freezing, disconnection, and crashing (on a USB-C display peripheral, it might be a glitch screen, or a hard drive might dismount etc).>

Yikes! can you give any detailed info on which Mac or Windows PC models this flaw ( or the chipset ) is found in?

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172874#Comment_172874

It's not necessarily an OS flaw. Users have just found that using a hub yields success more than not using a hub. So use a hub. Or be willing to try different ways.

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