the way NI handles older versions of software is just awful

Windows, back in the 3.1 days maybe, used to be where you could copy a software folder tree onto a new PC and drop a shortcut to the .EXE or the .INI file on the desktop and it would work.

Then came Windows NT, and after that, Vista and so on. "And then there was a hard times, and then there was a war." Oh wait, different story… 😉

At some point, we just couldn't just drag-and-drop the folders anymore. You had to actually INSTALL the app to get it to work.

That threw a lot of people off. Not unlike how the architecture changes for the MK3 keyboards have thrown people off.

As users of this thing or that thing, we fall into complacency. Hey, some of us still have 20-year old ovens and 30-year old refrigerators, and we don't realize that the new ones all run Linux and have to connect to WIFI these days, lol! We expect the new things to look and act just like the old things. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. I'm pretty sure my car runs on Linux now too.

@Murat Kayi

"What I don't get is: why doesn't NA2 give us a chance to revert back to versions of software we already owned for added convenience?" 

Totally agree that NA is far from perfect but reversion is (and never has been) part of that equation.

Each and every Kontakt library that was "updated" (Fall 2023) from a Kontakt v6 variant to requiring Kontakt (v7.6.0) - WAS clearly mentioned in the Release Notes for each item - right there in Native Access.

All one had to do was read the notes and go "Whoa - that is gonna mess me up" and leave it alone (if they were a happy K6 user)

However - every single one of us are part of a click happy bunch and all we ever do when we see a "1" appear beside a product in NA - is hit Update.

Now - does anyone ever look at Release Notes? No.

Should anyone look at Release Notes? Absolutely.

Could NI make the release notes more prominent within NA? Yes.

Could NA warn a user about the potential for killing off a perfectly good working V6 library? Sure.

Another key point is - Kontakt 6 is retired and has been for a long time now. If one wants to stay on it - that's cool - but that user has to at least make some minimal effort to check things out for their own install before blindly hitting Update in NA.

And if we think that NI is going load NA with every old product version that NI offers - I think that is wishful thinking at best and unsustainable/unmanageable at worst.

That said - NI should create a commercial grade Legacy Products area on the NI website that offers offline access to every installer every made so folks can get themselves sorted quickly if something goes off the rails.

VP

@BIF

"Well, not for EVERY update. But for KK, Kontakt, and any of the other instrument updates, yes I do look at the release notes. But not necessarily for every library, especially if the update being pushed out is mostly the same things for Komplete Kontrol and Kontakt."

I never used to either - but as soon as that Kontakt transition started in Fall 2023 - I now read every one of them.

Still have to check myself at the door when opening NA is ensure I do not update Komplete Kontrol to the version 3.2.1 that continually tempts me with that little "1" appears next to "Updates" in the left nav bar :)

VP

If you like it, you're just a masochist…

Well we love you too! 😘

…I don't judge…

I think you kind of did there. But that's okay, we still love you!

And bonus points for correctly spelling "masochist".

Wikipedia calls it "producing pain for the purpose of feeling pleasure".

Yep, you caught us. That's EXACTLY why we do it! 😉

@Vocalpoint

No one is being forced to update anything ?

Of course, but what happen then if you buy a new computer and re-install everything (when there is no official way to archive a NI installer) ?

Or if you don't spend 2h a day on NI forums trying to understand their policy regarding updates ? Because the usual way is updating plugins at the same pace you are updating your machine, hoping for something better, or even new features (like with most plugins I use). Now a lot of libraries are not compatible anymore with Kontakt 6 and we need to download the compatible version from a google drive (after many people did protest), when Kontakt 7 is a bug-fest crippled with issues changing with each update…

Regarding ValhallaVintageVerb, I don't get your exemple. Switching from vst2 to vst3 is of course not managed by Valhalla. It's switching from a plugin standard to another. I don't know Studio one but I guess it's a daw problem.
On Ableton Live there's absolutely no option for vst2>vst3 migration : you just use presets and do the migration manually (and it takes ages). I'm into this transition myself, and I don't like it, but I don't have any error window : it just takes hours. I never had any issues with Valhalla plugins recalling old sessions (the last version of VRoom had a bug with recalling, but it was fixed quickly).

@Calagan

These two statements really sum up your "You can't have your cake and eat it too" vibe:

"the most complicated way of managing old sessions (just for added fun)"

AND

"What happens then if you buy a new computer and re-install everything (when there is no official way to archive a NI installer) ?

On one hand - you are not thrilled with "managing old sessions" (AND finding old installers) whose only true solution is to leave an original installed environment alone - so sessions one did 5 years ago - open perfectly today if the machine is the same and the install is the same as it was 5 years ago.

But then - you roll right into "buying a new computer" - which is updating/upgrading and changing that environment in the biggest way.

Anyone who goes down this road - should expect things to really take a turn real fast as you are now so far away from "Buy once, install once and use it until it is no longer usable" as you can get.

If the title of this thread (The way NI handles older versions of software is just awful) has any sort of answer to that user who focuses on hassle free (non-migration) of any ancient plugin AND not having to worry about finding old installers OR their old sessions opening up - they need to stand down on all updates of any kind and use what they have.

If they cannot do that because of the temptation to update/buy/add something every time a shiny new thing appears - they need to be ready to pivot for every change (major or minor) to that environment.

This means maintaining full awareness of the "retirement" of old software (from any vendor), the inability to get old installers (from any vendor), the complete depreciation of a prior licensing infrastructure (like Service Center and soon NA 1) and especially the painful migration of previously used plugins in historical sessions that have been upgraded consistently over a period of years.

Also as Kubrak notes - backup everything. Never know when you will need it.

Keeping a DAW (and all it's doodads) current (and working) these days is a never ending self study course - and you need to do your homework.

VP

@Vocalpoint

Funny how much effort is made here to justify the new NI slogan : "make our life harder" !

I mean, if it were the same hassle for each dev, I would not complain here. But it's not. NI are the champions of hard life. Of course, I backup all my installers, I do regular backups of my system and so on, but I never had any problem with recalling old sessions with other devs - or at least I've got a decent amount of problems that are normal when managing different eras of code.

For exemple, D16 did release V2 versions of their catalogue in the last years, but it's a decent way to update a catalogue : a new version each 10 years. Valhalla, AudioThing and even DMG Audio update their plugins regularly since years, adding new features without releasing a new version : it's still the same plugin ID and there is no issue in updating and recalling old sessions.

Now take NI. There was a 7 years gap between Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6. Personnaly I don't make a lot of difference between the two versions, but at least it's a decent amount of time before upgrading a plugin. Kontakt 7 was released 4 years after Kontakt 6 (in 2022), and it's not working great and doesn't add a lot of features people wanted (I think the 20s lag when opening the plugin is not coming from popular demand).

Guitar Rig 6 was released in 2020, Guitar Rig 7 was released three years later, and I even doesn't know any new feature it brings (that couldn't be added as an update).

With the Apple Silicon mess, NI did suddenly abandon vst2 (where they didn't even have vst3 previously) and dramatically reduced the MacOs window of operation for a lot of their plugins, so suddenly you couldn't recall your sessions with vst2 Apple Silicon native plugins, and were obliged to migrate everything to vst3. Again, no other dev was doing that ! When I migrated to an Apple Silicon Mac, I think I did spend 10 times more times managing my NI plugins compared to managing ALL MY OTHER PLUGINS (and I've got a lot : I'm counting almost 70 different devs in my plugin folder).

It's my experience with NI. And it's not the same experience with other devs.

All we can do is keep our heads up and try to be ready for the next thing that gets thrown at us.

Well, this is always true, and not just for NI.