Some help needed with latency

Irnerius
Irnerius Member Posts: 3 Newcomer
edited October 2024 in Komplete Kontrol

Hi,

I've made a slight error.

I decided to start playing piano as a complete beginner. I have classical interest.

I bought, as far as I knew at that time, a second hand keyboard at a second hand store in town to start playing. When I took it home, it became very obvious that this thing had no speaker or power cable, and that it needed to be plugged in my computer to get any sound. I did so and downloaded the software. I bought an Komplete Control A61.

It does work, but it doesn't really feel like a real piano (which it obviously isn't). Even while using 'The Genteleman', I feel like there is a slight delay between pressing a key and hearing a sound. A delay that isn't there when playing a real piano or regular keyboard (I actually went to a pianostore to compare)

Is there a way to 'fix' the delay? I guess this machine is used for producing/recording music with effects in a much broader sense than just playing. I have no interest in producting or recording music. I just want to play. Is this possible for me with this keyboard?

Thank you.

Best Answers

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,749 Expert
    Answer ✓

    The delay is called latency, which can be quite high on an average computer because the audio interface is designed for general use, rather than for musicians etc.

    Typically a "low latency" interface is required. On PC (Windows) these use a protocol called ASIO.

    You can Google for "ASIO interface" and find many, from budget options to high end studio level.

    If you're using a Mac then someone else can assist :-)

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,298 mod
    edited March 2024 Answer ✓

    Your profile says PC so I will go with that.

    Quote : "I feel like there is a slight delay between pressing a key and hearing a sound"

    Could be a question of what drivers you use and maybe also to some extend depend on system resources (like if you have old slow computer) ?

    Also , then as PK The DJ suggests then try using an ASIO driver and select that in Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol ! , on that note then you have not told how you use the software. When you play do you then play in stand-alone Kontakt app or in Komplete Kontrol ? You can set an ASIO driver in both Komplete Kontrol and in Kontakt.

    There can be a huge difference latency/delay even between ASIO drivers , I tried two and one of them had four times the latency of the other , see pictures below here.

    Most people here will advice against the use of ASIO4All and say that it's not a real ASIO driver but to keep it simple then since you are not going to produce music then I will still suggest that you download and install the ASIO4all driver and try selecting that to see if that makes any difference. Configuring Audio and MIDI Settings in KOMPLETE KONTROL

    Normally it should not be a problem using a midi controller such as the A61 that you bought for playing music. Only real drawback normally is that it can not play without being connected to a computer. If you want to be able to use without a computer then you will have to get an electric piano or a synthesizer with a built in amplifier. Most synthesizers do not have built in speakers but will allow for attaching headphones. Electric pianos with built in speakers or simple keyboards made for home entertainment ( e.g. Yamaha PSR-F52 or the Yamaha PSR-E373 ) is the simplest and a good user friendly synthesizer rarely is an entry level priced piece of equipment but expensive !


    #tmp3.jpg


Answers

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,749 Expert
    Answer ✓

    The delay is called latency, which can be quite high on an average computer because the audio interface is designed for general use, rather than for musicians etc.

    Typically a "low latency" interface is required. On PC (Windows) these use a protocol called ASIO.

    You can Google for "ASIO interface" and find many, from budget options to high end studio level.

    If you're using a Mac then someone else can assist :-)

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,298 mod
    edited March 2024 Answer ✓

    Your profile says PC so I will go with that.

    Quote : "I feel like there is a slight delay between pressing a key and hearing a sound"

    Could be a question of what drivers you use and maybe also to some extend depend on system resources (like if you have old slow computer) ?

    Also , then as PK The DJ suggests then try using an ASIO driver and select that in Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol ! , on that note then you have not told how you use the software. When you play do you then play in stand-alone Kontakt app or in Komplete Kontrol ? You can set an ASIO driver in both Komplete Kontrol and in Kontakt.

    There can be a huge difference latency/delay even between ASIO drivers , I tried two and one of them had four times the latency of the other , see pictures below here.

    Most people here will advice against the use of ASIO4All and say that it's not a real ASIO driver but to keep it simple then since you are not going to produce music then I will still suggest that you download and install the ASIO4all driver and try selecting that to see if that makes any difference. Configuring Audio and MIDI Settings in KOMPLETE KONTROL

    Normally it should not be a problem using a midi controller such as the A61 that you bought for playing music. Only real drawback normally is that it can not play without being connected to a computer. If you want to be able to use without a computer then you will have to get an electric piano or a synthesizer with a built in amplifier. Most synthesizers do not have built in speakers but will allow for attaching headphones. Electric pianos with built in speakers or simple keyboards made for home entertainment ( e.g. Yamaha PSR-F52 or the Yamaha PSR-E373 ) is the simplest and a good user friendly synthesizer rarely is an entry level priced piece of equipment but expensive !


    #tmp3.jpg


  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Administrator, Customer Care Posts: 14,867 admin

    Ableton did a pretty cool article: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209072289-How-to-reduce-latency

  • Irnerius
    Irnerius Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    Thank you all for your comments.

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,749 Expert

    @Irnerius If your audio settings allow your device to use WASAPI you may find that helps, as it's Microsoft's attempt at lowering audio latency.

  • Irnerius
    Irnerius Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    @PoorFellow Okay fantastic fix. Worked immediately.

    Although it works for like 15 seconds and then I get a weird distored sound which resolves itself after a couple seconds. It can also be fixed by opening the panel and restoring to default settings. This keeps coming back tho.

    I don't necesseraly have an old laptop. I does fine at the newer, more heavier games. I guess it should be able to handle sounds right?

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 376 Pro

    The distortion could be a result of the buffer setting in the asio4all driver. Try increasing the number of samples and see if that helps.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 7,298 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/143689#Comment_143689

    I think that there is a good chance that Mark Oxley is right with respect to that it might be a settings problem. If you don't have access to ASIO4ALL settings when driver is in use in program (green icon with arrow in system tray area) then uninstall the driver and reinstall using the "Be sure to check Off-Line Settings" described at Sweetwater here ! If the option described is not available in your present downloaded version when reinstalling then report that , also the driver manual is here ! Alas I do not know what is the proper setting for the driver for you , but you could try e.g. 512 samples process buffer + 4 ms USB buffer !

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,749 Expert

    It's generally accepted that latency of around 10ms is adequate (i.e. not noticeable). You don't need to go as low as 4ms, and probably wouldn't be able to anyway without a real ASIO interface.

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 376 Pro

    Its also worth mentioning that different software can also affect latency.

    In Ableton Live 12 I can set the sample buffer to 128 with no issues. If I use the same settings in Maschine or Komplete Kontrol I get plagued by dropouts and crackling. I have to change it to 512 samples to make it usable. I have noticed that NI software is prone to random CPU spikes which seems to coincide with the interference.

  • A_K_F
    A_K_F Member Posts: 12 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/143689#Comment_143689

    I had the same problems with ASIO4ALL in Ableton Live. It only worked for a short time before the distortions started. The buffer size settings didn't resolve the problem.

    My solution was to install Voicemeeter (standard version was enough for me, but you can also use Banana or Potato) and use the included virtual ASIO output. Takes some time to understand, but runs perfectly and has a lot of nice features. Voicemeeter is donationware.

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