What is the future of Maschine mk3?

holonology · 2024-02-26T08:21:34+00:00

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We've now seen the rollout of the S-Series keyboards. As far as I know, MK2 keybaords are still supported with new iterations of the Komplete Kontrol software.

Meanitme, we're seeing a number of rumours about a new Maschine. Will Mk3 Maschines continue to be supported, and will they also benefit from the new software and maybe refreshed graphics etc?

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Milos

Well...perhaps after the new Maschine it will still be supported, but only for a few months, something like that.

Basicaly like every other product or OS.

After the release of a new one, the old one will still get the support but only for a half a year, at least.

Just a speculation, so please take my theory with a grain of salt.

D-One

There are always rumors, well... speculation is a better term, but rarely from a reliable source or with any factual data to back it up... so they are all meaningless.

No one knows the details of what you're asking in advance, and even if a user knows they for sure cant talk about it. NI doesn't give much of a heads-up for this type of stuff neither, so all you get with such questions is more especulation.

holonology

@D-One - thanks for this. "NI doesn't give much of a heads-up for this type of stuff neither, so all you get with such questions is more especulation."

I'm in business myself, so I understand that typically you don't broadcast what you're going to do. That said, I think companies can take a lead here in clearly communicating their overall approach (without revealing product timelines). Ableton is a great example. They openly talk about how their gear is made for the long haul and they make it clear that they will continue supporting Push 2, even though Push 3 is now here. That too is being marketed as a device with a long time frame.

For example, baking in a promise that the company will continue to sell/support one hardware revision back. This allows the company to announce Maschine mk4 with no downshift in mk3 sales. I searched around for similar recent comments and I found that some people are reading press releases and coming to their own conclusions. This is what someone said on Reddit, rightly or wrongly.

You can choose to invest in the magnificent Native Instruments Komplete/NKS platform, but you will need to be aware it is a legacy platform that this venture capital firm has moved on from. Or you could invest in SoundWide Komplete/NKS2 and whatever that product holds in a year or two.

My only other observation would be that your point holds if NI were completely tight lipped about the possibility of new hardware. But reps on this forum and on the socials can and do tease things as "coming soon" or responding to speculative comments about new HW/SW with "👀👀👀👀." You can say this is just playfulness or fun commmunity engagement. But I would also suggest this is communication about products and so therefore they are giving us something of a heads up, even if it's a cheeky wink on a forum.

In saying all this I recognise you are a mod not an employee, so hopefully this is taken in the spirit it's intended, as a comment about NI process & communication than my personal view. It's a pre-purchase concern about future compatibility vs a flaming from a disgruntled customer. I have bought plenty of NI software and I would love to have the confidence to buy hardware, but the current communications makes me wary and more likely to spend that cash elsewhere. One for the marketing team at NI probably!

Peace. ✌️

D-One

No prob. I understand, your post and concerns are quite reasonable, it doesn't come across at all as a flaming rant. Sometimes they do broadcast the immediate plans, it depends on the product and some other things.

Leads, Product Managers/Owners (and such job titles) sometimes became active on the forum for a year or so and clear up lots of questions, this is the case now for KK (S3) where Matthew is rather active, or NA2 where there's dev logs and plans shared for example, but... Maschine is not currently in this "phase", it has been in the past, the last time was during the release of the M+.

Maschine hardware has historically had very decent support longevity, a decade +, the Mk2 is from 2012 and is still supported, heck the mk1 is from 2009 and still works on Windows. This doesn't prove the Mk3 will also have a 10-year run but it's a good track record IMO. The best indication would be the fact that the M+ which is the recent flagship is just an MK3 with a computer inside, so.. chances of both being unsupported soon are low, but... it's still possible.

The worst that can happen if a MK4 is released is you're stuck with the current version of the SW, which is already VST3 and Apple Silicon so it should last a long time and you get what you paid for.

My advice if you're scared to purchase an MK3 is to get it used, this way if you get burned, it's only half the $.

But reps on this forum and on the socials can and do tease things as "coming soon" or responding to speculative comments about new HW/SW with "👀👀👀👀." You can say this is just playfulness or fun commmunity engagement. But I would also suggest this is communication about products and so therefore they are giving us something of a heads up, even if it's a cheeky wink on a forum.

Things said on the forum are usually serious, but on socials my perception of watching it over the years and especially recently is it's all just for the engagement and to keep people talking/waiting. I pay zero mind to comments such as "👀", I actually would go as far as calling those a bit deceiving so personally I really don't want that "👀 wink wink" 💩 here on the forum tbh, we are mostly adults here.

Reps have shared plans in the past that got canceled, really important things like Performance Recording during the Jam era, that left a really sour taste in the mouth of many customers, it was perceived as a false promise, so sharing too much can be dangerous... I rather not know than be fooled whether it was on purpose or not... anyway, since then they tend to only talk about things that are rather close to release.

ozon

@holonology wrote:

I'm in business myself, so I understand that typically you don't broadcast what you're going to do.

It‘s possible and is done. Good example here:

https://youtu.be/-kX4BmKINNs?si=cfUdu1iJHiZjvdiU

holonology

"My advice if you're scared to purchase an MK3 is to get it used, this way if you get burned, it's only half the $."

I would agree with this @D-One for sure. At least the risk is minimised that way.

"I actually would go as far as calling those a bit deceiving so personally I really don't want that "👀 wink wink" 💩 here on the forum tbh, we are mostly adults here.

completely agree!

Thanks for the vid @ozon - I'll take a look later - but I think it is a good look when companies do this.

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136491#Comment_136491

Something like that Road Map would be amazing but in the context of what OP asked I have a really hard time picturing a company say in Q1 announcing that in Q4 a product/hw will not longer be supported... That type of announcement is quite different from just a Road Map of the 'good stuff that will happen'.

Maybe it happens in some companies but I personally never seen it, at least not in the Audio tech world.

ozon

@D-One

[…] I have a really hard time picturing a company say in Q1 announcing that in Q4 a product/hw will not longer be supported...

[…]

Maybe it happens in some companies but I personally never seen it, at least not in the Audio tech world.

True.

In the IT corporate business it’s actually a requirement to announce exact lifecycles of products as part of contracts. For example, look at the RedHat Linux or Java roadmaps. The EOS and EOL is already known before a new version is released.

The music tech world is just an amateurish pile of unreliable toys for kids compared to actual serious business.

In pro audio and video tech (for broadcast such as Studer and Riedel) you might find a different approach.

holonology

Good points folks. I think general principles are good enough at this point. A company rolling out big updates might internally decide that a roadmap is a good thing to do because it instills confidence that updates are coming to a platform that may be low on features. You can see this a little with (for example) Minimal Audio and their botched attempt to do a subscription. They've since changed their tune and offered more in the way of a roadmap because at this point, let's be honest, they need the subscribers.

As I mentioned, Ableton does this almost subliminally, when they offer repairability and upgrades for Push 3 & support for discontinued devices. Push 2 just got a few features that launched with Push 3, which is not bad for a device nearing its 10th year. Even without specific roadmap announcements, that speaks volumes about the intent behind the company and also goes a long way to justifying their high price points.

But Maschine is one of those products that has been developed up to a point now with that being 8 years old or so. It would seem to me that the hardware is well developed and now software will be key to upgrading the device. If S-Series keyboards can use Komplete Kontrol 3, then I would hope that a potential Maschine 3.0 software would work with Maschine mk3, and a potential mk3 (as well as the Maschine+ of course.) That's the best case scenario as it would see the device at least manitain parity and functionality for the long haul, even if it doesn't have the newest and shiniest features that may be locked into NKS2.

Back to @D-One and your suggestions, based on all this, I'm considering B-Stock direct from Native. I have heard good things about refurb units turning up "like new". But even if the unit would have some signs of being opened, the risk is shared. For a low price you don't get a new unit, but you do get a guarantee and no games with finding a software license etc, so the risk/reward balance feels OK for those devices perhaps. That might be the best balance for my use case.

LostInFoundation

Maschine is way older. Its first iteration was in my studio almost 15 years ago ☺️

D-One

Well, that is certainly safer and you get a warranty. I never bought anything NI used but sold a bunch, I only sell in person and have my transfer ID ready so the user registers when buying, I tell buyers to bring their laptop; if I would ever buy used I wouldn't do it any other way as online sometimes sellers go MIA when its time to transfer SW.

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136645#Comment_136645

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, probably because IT stuff affects corporate and problems can cost millions, especially backend and servers.

I think general Music customers have pretty low standards too, and don't get me started on music-tech YouTubers / influencers, critical thinking and criticism are just non-existent. If I watch say a GamersNexus review of a bad computer part or software they completely obliterate it with zero f's given if the company gets mad or stops sending them free stuff... but do it in an unbiased objective way. They also dissect any deceiving marketing claims, etc, I wish the same happened for Audio because whether we like it or not media and influencers hold a lot of power to change things.

reffahcs

Plus one for GamersNexus, love that channel. I think Loopop is one of the better YT reviewers. The man gives in-depth reviews and actually explains things, unlike half the reviews out there that are "listen to me play this for 30 minutes, no talking" But he's gone on record regarding Behringer and future reviews, and I respect the guy for that.

I do agree that there seem like there's very few channels out there that are willing to call out vendors. The few channels that do seem to specialize in only focusing on products they don't like so all of their videos end up trashing at least one product and/or vendor.

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136774#Comment_136774

100%. I quite literally trust no one else other than Loopop, everyone else I've seen doesn't make 'reviews', they make advertisements whether to keep good relations with companies or get paid through affiliate links... It's despicable tbh, maybe some don't do it on purpose but it $ure is convenient.

I haven't caught many channels focusing on just the negative, I follow only 2 or 3 like that but they're more focused on being humorous/satire rather than serious or informative. There a lot of really small channels who are very critical but usually the overall content is terrible, it's rating for 30min, unscripted, unedited all over a screencap of a product page. MPC/Maschine has quite a few of those.

PK The DJ

Put yourself in their shoes. If a company is prepared to send you a product for review and you are not expected to return it, you're going to be happy about that, right? So chances are that you will be (mainly) positive about it, because......more free stuff.

Certainly the reviewers I've seen tend to be quite clear whether they got the product free or not, and that they are not restricted in what they can say. Negative comments IMO are more constructive criticism than "calling out".

holonology

Yeah I know what you mean about the reviews. Loopop is good ("Hi." 😄) and I also enjoy Weaver Beats, mainly because he pokes fun at music companies being way too serious for their own good.

But in general on Youtube you're watching online are advertorials, not reviews. Even Loopop does have a tendency to say "make up your own mind which features matter to you" though I think he's earned the right to say what gear he likes and doesn't. What I will say is his feature walkthroughs are a game changer for when you want to just get a grip of what you're actually buying into beyond the spec sheet.

But of course, what keeps the gear flowing through for any reviewer is describing the thing, talking up its good points, and maybe picking out the occasional flaw, which are often cosmetic or non dealbreakers which I imagine the music companies like, since it suggests honesty without being hyper critical.

In the era of release day drops, I think (or at least I hope) more people are getting wise to these tactics.

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