Newbie - S61 mk3 - can preview sounds via keyboard dial but no sound from keys
Answers
-
Yes, that does not look good, I see that you submitted a request in support, my colleagues will need to have a deeper look. I will add the information found here. In the meantime, would you have the opportunity to try the keyboard on another computer?
0 -
I have an older PC somewhere in the garage that I can maybe dig out. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks for your input.
0 -
Progress!!
So, I dug the old PC out, installed Native Access, Hardware Connection Service, Komplete Kontrol and Massive. Firmware Updater also reported up-to-date.
Previewing sounds in the browser worked, then I selected one and pressed the keys, fully expecting failure but NO, IT WORKED!!! I could hear sounds.
So what's the difference?
- USB ports - the MacBook only has USB-C, whereas the PC only has old school USB-A
- Software - both were clean installs. The PC works whereas the MacBook Pro (M1 Pro) doesn't
- Configuration of the two machines
I swapped out the USB-C to USB-C cable with another one (both are from Apple devices) but no success.
I then used the USB-C to USB-A, the cable that worked with the PC, connected to my Mac via a USB hub. No joy there either. The USB-C to USB-C cable that came with the S61 is in the box in the loft, buried with stuff. I discarded it, figuring it was faulty as the Firmeware Updater couldn't detect the S61 using it. I guess digging that out is an option. But why would the Apple USB-C to USB-C cables not work? They're presumably good quality.
What about the software installation then? I can try again on the Mac but how to completely remove the NI software so as to perform a truly 'clean' install.
As for configuration of the MacBook Pro, I've proven other midi controllers can play when connected via the Apple USB-C cables. Just not the S61. This is why I am thinking it must be software related.
Appreciate your thoughts please. I ain't digging around in that loft just yet!
0 -
Since it is Apple USB-C cables you are writing about then one would think that the cable that you write about would be a 'Thunderbolt' cable. But another user that had a cable problem has reported that a 'passive' Thunderbolt 4 cable worked where the cable supplied with the keyboard did not !
As for electronics then I think that how things behave might depend on e.g. if the device supplying power can keep supplying the correct voltage or not at a certain load (current demanded) and another factor can be the wire resistance of the cable used. And as for devices (in this case computers) then I imagine that it is not certain that ports on both computers behave in the same manner and not even certain that they keep supplied voltage at exactly same level at e.g. zero load or that the ports are both able to supply same voltage and/or current at a given load ! And as for cables then I am not sure at which voltage that USB-C communicates but a combination of specific computer port , keyboard and cable could do that the keyboard is not able to communicate with the computer because keyboard demanding more than computer port can supply using a given cable. And if so, then that could also be why you experience that one device works where another does not, because either the device working demands less or it is less sensitive to drops in voltage or current.. Or could be that for some reason one part haves a problem with frequency of communication, used communication protocol or whatever. Of course all this I just my imagination and stray thoughts on the subject and despite interest in electronics then I do not know sufficient about the subject and I am not a hardware engineer..
0 -
Interesting, thanks.
I'm wondering if that original cable stuffed in the attic should be back down here. Perhaps the reason it's there is because it couldn't detect the S61 for firmware update, but that was at a time before I realised there are actually two USB-C ports on it.
Perhaps I'm being a bit thick, but I thought I would be able to power and exchange data with just one USB-C cable from the keyboard to my USB hub. I can certainly do that with the Akai MPK Mini. Should that be the case with the S61?
Just for context, my planned powering setup is as follows:
LG Ultrawide Monitor powering my MacBook Pro over USB-C.
MacBook Pro has an unpowered USB Hub plugged into it.
USB has a single Apple USB-C cable connected to S61.
Expectation is that I don't need to separately power the S61, and indeed the lights are on, and that also data will be exchanged.
Perhaps this setup is 'optimistic' and/or the Apple USB-C cable isn't up to the job of powering and exchanging data at the same time?
0 -
Saw the other thread has been closed and in response to the request for screen grabs of the midi setup in Kontrol, here they are:
I have my S61 and my Akai MPK both connected directly to my MacBook Pro via USB-C. In GarageBand I created a single midi track that I was able to play using the Akai but not the S61, which I then selected from the Controller dropdown:
0 -
I guess that's good news as it at least eliminates something being physically wrong with your keyboard (which would be a lot of hassle). Maybe the cable is the issue, or try a powered USB hub?
0 -
A lot of people have had a lot of problems with cables and USB-C PSUs. The wisdom to take from that is that it appears as if people have most success using USB-C PD (power delivery) ready stuff and use that to power the keyboard via it's power port. (This appears as having been of help to at least some) While at the same time connecting the keyboard to the computer via the data port and then in all of that use best quality cables (which is rather diffuse and hard to to know/diagnose for user). Having absolutely nothing relating to the problem to test with myself I can only default back to the assumption that, from user report, then the (rather expensive and limited in length) passive Thunderbolt 4 cables appears as the best quality for at least data connection !(?)
The (at least suggested) use of both an USB-C power supply and best cables (and even a self-powered USB-C hub) in case like this of course is to try to eliminate as many fault factors as possible in the a setup to try to either eliminate possible sources to problems or to simplify trouble-shooting. Then one can always go back afterwards and swap parts to try to locate what parts are not working in the setup for what ever reason !
Also it should be understood that while all this 'trouble-shooting' a lot of initial problems with the S - Series MK3 keyboards were diagnosed as mostly relating to driver issues (Matthew_NI, Product Team, 4:58 PM , 2023-11-29) then IMO then that does not exclude that there at least appear as having been other issues related to electronics or cables which all have been completely and utterly blurred (multiple problem sources overlapping) , which in turn complicates things a lot as it either could take a long time to properly pin point other issues due to the blurring which has occurred or at least initially prevent the pinpointing of same issues. Again this is my personal thoughts on the matter and neither do I work here nor do I have a related education/degree to help me or to support my 'speculations' !
0 -
Hallelujah, SUCCESS !!!!!!!
So, I climbed into the attic to retrieve the official USB cable from the keyboards box and feverishly plugged it in. Nothing!!
Next I did some digging at the basic level of connectivity between the S61 and my Mac, taking any music software completely out of the mix (pun intended). In the Mac's Audio MIDI Setup app I could see the S61 and my Akai MPK Mini. That app allows you to test the inputs and outputs of those devices. I tested the input port of the Akai and was greeted with a flashing triangle and a blip from the device. On the S61, absolutely nothing. So I did some digging and here is what I found:
[can't paste URL here as I'm a newbie]
I followed the advice given and created a new midi configuration and lo and behold, I got my little flashing triangle from the S61 onscreen port.
Going back to the S61 and my GarageBand track I could play the software synth with the keyboard!
Acid test, what about Komplete Kontrol?
YES, YES, YES!!!!
But there are some issues that I still need to resolve:
- The sound level from the selected instrument is lower, and in the case of pianos like Noire or Gentleman much lower than the previewed sound (not that Gentleman has any previews)
- Sound is only coming from one of my KRK speakers when going through Komplete Kontrol, whereas there's no problem in GarageBand or any other app (YouTube, Spotify, etc).
I won't pollute this thread with those issues though, I'll go back to searching the forums.
BIG THANK YOU to everybody who has made suggestions on this and the other thread. Great community spirit.
0 -
The sound level from the selected instrument is lower, and in the case of pianos like Noire or Gentleman much lower than the previewed sound (not that Gentleman has any previews)
Sound is only coming from one of my KRK speakers when going through Komplete Kontrol, whereas there's no problem in GarageBand or any other app (YouTube, Spotify, etc).
- Previews have a separate volume control to the instruments (bottom left) so can be quieter or louder (or even muted)
- You probably need to check the audio out settings
0 -
Watching.
After the firmware update, my S61 MK3 keybed became unresponsive, too. I'm getting the same "invalid" message from MIDI Monitor (Arturia MiniLab is working fine).
0 -
Pretty annoying as a newbie to this forum I can't post a link that would genuinely help somebody out, so here's a screen grab. Creating a new configuration worked for me. Good luck.
0 -
Here is the link :
My USB MIDI Device isn't working on my Mac : https://support.novationmusic.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206862119-My-USB-MIDI-Device-isn-t-working-on-my-Mac
1 -
@oliverson Thanks for sharing the solution, I've enabled you to post links now (this is to avoid very agressive spambots).
0 -
Thank you Oliverson! I was in the same situation and creating a new configuration in the MIDI setup did the trick. You avoided some headache tonight. Thank you!
Sonoma 14.6.1 MacBook Pro M1Max here0
Categories
- All Categories
- 19 Welcome
- 1.5K Hangout
- 65 NI News
- 818 Tech Talks
- 4.2K Native Access
- 17K Komplete
- 2.1K Komplete General
- 4.4K Komplete Kontrol
- 5.9K Kontakt
- 1.6K Reaktor
- 390 Battery 4
- 870 Guitar Rig & FX
- 440 Massive X & Synths
- 1.3K Other Software & Hardware
- 5.9K Maschine
- 7.6K Traktor
- 7.6K Traktor Software & Hardware
- Check out everything you can do
- Create an account
- See member benefits
- Answer questions
- Ask the community
- See product news
- Connect with creators