Kontrol S61/S49 MK3 Velocity Response

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  • SuperTRev
    SuperTRev Member Posts: 120 Helper

    You're right, I was playing synths when I first complained.

    So I put the velocity curve back to linear and ran some tests on pianos.

    Tried to not play a certain way on purpose, to see what was happening, for a proper experiment. Just pushed on keys trying to keep a consistent playing style without accenting any notes on purpose.

    Here is the FLS piano roll velocities on Kontakt/The Maverick. I colored the black keys black post edit. (You can tell my finger strength is pretty bad right now. Using pianos instead of synths really helps with my soft playing no sound issue btw).

    Velocities.jpg

    I investigated that one spike, and it's C#5 (6 in FLS), and since it was a jump from B4, that tells me it was struck with my right hand middle finger, which is dominant, as I push a lot of buttons doing computer things, and use my middle finger mostly, so it's much stronger, so my playing isn't that balanced. The middle finger is longer and has more downward leverage too, depending on where you're touching the key.

    Getting similar results with the other pianos too. The black keys on my unit are not defective.

  • davinwv
    davinwv Member Posts: 23 Member

    Just a quick update:

    Sweetwater sent me a replacement unit, and its keybed feels worlds better than my initial one, and its black keys are sending much more reasonable velocity levels, but some notes played on black keys still jump out unexpectedly on occasion across all velocity curve options. Thus @Matthew_NI, I do think that NI still has some fine tuning to do on the black keys via a firmware update, if possible.

    Unfortunately however, my replacement unit arrived with a droopy high C key that dips below the other keys when at rest (see attached photos). This will drive my OCD crazy (especially on an $850 premium controller), so I've asked for another replacement unit!

    Finally, once I settle on a given replacement unit, how do I remove the serial of my first unit from my account and replace it without losing (or doubling) my licenses for the bundled software? The serial of the initial S61 MK3 is currently showing up as "Not Transferrable" in my account, and I have read that you cannot transfer a serial within 60 days of adding it to your account. @Jeremy_NI - any ideas on how to make this transition when the time comes?

    PXL_20231208_124120395.jpg
    PXL_20231208_124131156.jpg


  • Babrekulf
    Babrekulf Member Posts: 18 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/114333#Comment_114333

    Too bad you just got a "almost fixed" one.

    I got a Prophet Rev2 instead, that uses the standard Fatar TP/9S keybed and it feels really great! No issues playing a dynamic piano plugin and no hot black keys. The feel and expressiveness is not as good as the Yamaha Montage (FSX keybed), but the overall experience is much more fun. And whats even more crazy.. i got this used ANALOG synth, built with metal and wood, for not much more than my S61🫣

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 12,385 mod

    @davinwv Sorry to hear that you got a defective key on the new keyboard. To un-register/re-register the keyboard, you simply need to get in touch with our registration support agents here: ttps://bit.ly/NIsupport_RA

  • Potsie_42
    Potsie_42 Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    I have the same issue. Black keys are significantly hotter. Cannot possibly play Linus and Lucy anymore on any velocity curve. : (

    C4-C5 sharps are even hotter than other octaves.

  • davinwv
    davinwv Member Posts: 23 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/116170#Comment_116170

    Can you still get a replacement from your retailer? I just took delivery of my second replacement unit from Sweetwater, and I finally got one with a more consistent keybed (than my initial unit) with no droopy keys (like the first replacement unit - see my comment above).

    But also as I said above, I still hope that NI can do some optimization of the keybed through firmware updates, as it still feels a bit odd at times. All the non-Linear internal curves just make the black keys feel worse in comparison to the white keys.

  • Potsie_42
    Potsie_42 Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    Thank you for your reply, davinwv! My retailer currently does not have stock but I think it will be worth exploring an exchange. I am not very dynamically gifted to begin with so the super loud flats make me sound like the level before hobbyist when I am clearly capable of producing hobbyist level material. LOL!

    I am not seeking perfection but these flats are more than a standard deviation away from normal.😁

    To your point, if a reasonable correction was made transparent through a flat velocity reduction algo in the firmware, I could spare myself the trouble of producing a high quality "re-boxing vid" featuring a Linus and Lucy soundtrack as played on the S61 MK3 without a compressor.

    I really enjoy everything else about the S61 MK3 keyboard. My understanding is that clean space on each side of the display is so that one can have unimpeded access to left and right Maschine+'s, non?

  • wunderba
    wunderba Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    Did this ever get resolved? I have latest firmware on an Kontrol S61 mk3 and the hot black keys is driving me up a wall. For reference, I have a Yamaha P105, a cheap plastic iRig Keys Pro, and a fully weighted Kawaii CA99 hammer action digital piano and don't experience this issue at all.

    The black keys on my mk3 S61 produce velocity curves at least 30-40% louder than the white keys with the same pressure applied. This is sadly a deal breaker for any kind of nuanced play. I love the feel of the action on this keyboard and the integration with my NI libraries, but unless NI has a plan to address this either with a firmware update or adding in a method to adjust velocity curves at a "per note" level to Kontakt/Komplete - I'm probably going to return it.


    @Jeremy_NI

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 12,385 mod
    • @wunderba Well, there were a few cases where the keyboard was defective and a few other where it was just a matter of users getting used to it. Please feel free to get in touch with our hardware service. Please include videos, MIIDI monitor reports and such in your enquiry: https://bit.ly/NI_support_Hardware


  • davinwv
    davinwv Member Posts: 23 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/146611#Comment_146611

    I would honestly suggest returning it if you still are able to do so. My second replacement unit is now 4 months old, and as I said above, it feels better than the initial one, but still isn't right.

    I'm contemplating buying a (fourth!) unit from Amazon to see if the initial stock after the release might have been the problem; however, given your issues with a recently purchased unit, I doubt it will make a difference.

    NI just doesn't care about anyone trying to do serious/nuanced playing on these synth actions. I wonder if the S88 MK3 has similar issues?

  • Don Venray
    Don Venray Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    I'm missing two features in the Kontrol S61. You should be able to calibrate the Velocity and why we cannot Transpose the Keyboard by Key. If I prefer to play in D, but the DAW music is in F, it would be nice to transpose the midi keyboard only. Maybe it's in there, but now still did not find it.

    Playing on the S61 is not that easy. I'm used to play on my Genos. The keys are very slow and the velocity is difficult to manage. If you want to get a higher pressure, you will hear the after touch also.

    Does anybody know if the S88 is the same?

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,397 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/150601#Comment_150601

    You can Transpose. Press SHIFT + the Octave key.

    You may also turn Polyphonic Aftertouch off in the settings.

  • Don Venray
    Don Venray Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    Thank you… verry helpfull! Nevertheless, I'm going to exchange the S61 to S88. I don't like the velocity of the S61 while playing live.

  • davinwv
    davinwv Member Posts: 23 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/151012#Comment_151012

    How long ago did you purchase your S61 MK3? All of my units were from right around the initial release, and I was really hoping NI would correct these keybed issues in subsequent production runs.

  • Don Venray
    Don Venray Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    I just bought this one, 1 week ago. Maybe this one is already long time in Stock.

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