Kontrol S61/S49 MK3 Velocity Response
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Here are some videos of my unit playing both Noire and The Grandeur (both first party NI libraries that @Matthew_NI and @Jeremy_NI should have access to for testing), but the same thing happens in third-party libraries, as well:
I'm happy to record these tests again within my DAW (Studio One) to show the resulting velocity jumps in the piano roll.
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Any updates, NI folks?
It's been radio silence since I posted my videos.
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Been having a lot of issues with the NI Hardware Connection Service, leaving the S61mk3 stuck in different DAW-modes when closing a DAW. I ended up uninstalling it and was way happier, even though not being able to use the display to control Kontakt anymore.
This left me thinking: I have spent 1000 euros on a midi-controller that does not let me control midi, It has a keybed that is borderline unplayable with dynamic instruments and the big screen only displays this: (without even letting me change the template name)
I love the overall industrial design, which was the main reason i even considered this product, but it falls short in usability. Don´t even get me started on the knob spacing.. Has anyone at NI even tried using the knobs? I understand its form over function but the knob row would actually be better looking if it was as wide as the screen. Then i might not get my fingers stuck between the knobs all the time.
So i´ve decided to return it.
The NI-comment "it may be technique adapting to a new keybed" did not help.
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@davinwv @Babrekulf I need some time to check this out, I've got a lot on my hands at the moment, hopefully I can check that out later this week.
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Thanks very much for your efforts, @Jeremy_NI. I appreciate it.
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Yes - we tested knob spacing extensively. This would be the first report of them being too close!
Two things:
1) Are you on an Apple M1 or M2 system? If so - there is a known issue affecting peripherals such as ours with regards to USB-C, that results in the freezing/stuck/bad connection* behaviors you mention. There is a simple workaround (we have other threads on this).
2) We stand proudly behind the keybed, which was also extensively validated, and is very very carefully calibrated from the factory. Each (49/61 and 88) happens to be one of the best Fatar keybeds they've ever made in in that price range. Certainly, when manufacturing tens of thousands of units at a time, one or two may occasionally slip through with an assembly defect of some kind, but nothing en masse.
Hopefully all my comments are helpful in one way or another. I'm interested to root cause any potential issues - we do so all day as part of the job, but as mentioned earlier, we're not yet able to reproduce issues with the keybed as reported in this thread. In two cases having gotten units back - it really was a matter of taste. @davinwv we could certainly get in touch to coordinate a replacement, but based on what I've seen in the videos so far, you may find it's working as expected, even if that is not to your particular liking.
*this would result in not showing the plug-in integration on screen
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OK I just went through these.
It's not something I'm able to replicate on my/our units, at all. Whether that's technique or a dud keybed probably comes down to us needing to look at it. Let me talk to @Jeremy_NI and our QA team as well and report back.
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Thanks very much for watching these videos and discussing internally at NI. I would like to swap the unit, if possible. I'm happy to do so through my retailer (Sweetwater), if necessary, but I might need some backup from NI doing so if Sweetwater's replacement window has closed.
I know that no one likes to have their playing technique questioned, but I am a player first (for the last 35+ years), and this doesn't happen to me when using any of the other keybeds I own (weighted (Studiologic SL88 Grand), waterfall (Studiologic Numa Organ 2), synth (Novation Launchkey 61 MK3 and the little Korg microkey AIR61 that the S61 MK3 replaces on my desk), and as I say in one of the videos, I can't imagine that this is the intended behavior / velocity response of an $850.00 unit with a high-end keybed.
While I understand that weighted keybeds are more desirable for playing pianos and EPs, folks also play these sounds on semi-weighted / synth action keybeds like the S49/61 MK3 in a pinch. I should be able to track a quick piano or Rhodes part without having black notes jump out like this.
The S61 MK3 isn't just for playing synths with polyphonic aftertouch.
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I was first planning on constructing a simple impact-swing-device that would let me accurately test the velocity sensitivity for a given force and compare between the black and white keys. But i really don´t have the time.
I instead measured the key stroke-length on a few midi-keyboards, since i have found the keybed "feeling odd" from start.
To do this, i measured the underside of a white key down to the structure below. I then pressed the key to the point where its fully triggering a note and sits at rest, before triggering aftertouch. I measure this new distance the same way and subtract that value the first. I did this on multiple keys and averaged the value.
NI S61mk3 has a stroke length on the white keys of 8mm.
The NI A61 has 9,5mm and the Roland A-49 has 11mm.
Can you confirm that the short stroke-distance on my unit is correct compared to yours? Is this shorter key stroke range by design?
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I just went through the manual looking for where the input sensitivity is, and it seems to be missing.
? My S61 mk2 had that option. Disappointing because this keybed feels a little squishy. I am also having the issue where I'm not pressing them hard enough to get a sound (haven't looked at aftertouch yet though; I assume it's on by default).
This keyboard is definitely a fantastic build. I just wish that I could play it softly. FL Studio has an input velocity map. That might help, when I configure it.
Eagerly anticipating what you guys mean by 'daw integration'
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You have the option to select different velocity-curves right on the controller screen by pressing the Settings-button.
Mapping the input-velocity does not work for me, since the black and white keys behave differently AND the black keys are sending out 127 when they shouldn't.
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Oh, I didn't see the buttons at the top is where it was hiding. Very nice, thank you.
My black keys are working fine. I know that's not what you want to hear, but maybe you have a dud.
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I am seeing some other issues.
- Why is there as much as a full second latency when togging the settings.
- Why you can enter the settings menu with the settings button but can't exit with the same button.
- Why the endless ticky encoder is so hard to press that it reverberates the entire keyboard frame, making an ugly sound.
- Or why why every NI app sits there scanning its library every boot up that takes like ten minutes.
- Of course the issue of unwrapping the keyboard and finding I couldn't use it because there was no $5 USB C adapter in the same box that contains a $1,200 keyboard.
- Or more seriously, why the usage data tracking was enabled by default, without my consent. I dunno guys, that looks pretty damn illegal to me.
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If you play a dynamic piano plugin, you dont find that the black keys are hotter in velocity output than the white? Great if thats the case, would mean that my unit is broken. I´ve sent it back today, will be looking for something else though.
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