KKS MK3 stuck at "Get latest update" - no firmware updater launching
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This is what I posted in the thread about the factory USB-C cable, and what makes me think there is something definitely up with the USB-C cable or possibly the interface on this keyboard. I have found that some USB-C cables, including the factory supplied cable have issues, at least on my M2 Studio. There is no low-voltage warning, but certain knobs and functions on the keyboard do not work. In my case I found that the Ableton Live Push 3 USB-C cable works well, other cables do not work, or seem to stop working after some time.
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One reply from a well known company on the issue was:
USB-C is just a connector, which a manufacturer can still screw up. If some changes save 5 cents, they will go for it. I highly doubt that the problem is the Mac Studio, because all other devices I have attached work just fine and within specs.
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Not trying to imply that it's a Mac issue, just that I can't speak to any possible issues with the PC.
I've been experimenting with some EMI/RFI chokes that I had sitting around, but with the factory cable being so hit or miss it's really hard to tell if they fix the problem, or if it's just from bending the cable in a certain way.
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@TomSynsongs are you having the same issues as so many of the rest of us with Mac computers using the Browser in your S61 keyboard after loading Kontakt or Komplete as a plugin or standalone application?
@Chris_NI, I was able to update firmware WITHOUT any workarounds. However, my keyboard is completely non-functional when actually trying to use it with Kontakt or Komplete, either as standalone applications or as plugins. As @ADN 01 mentions above, all the buttons and encoders cease functioning and the Browser on the S61 does not load after pressing the Browser button.
As an aside, @TomSynsongs and I are using high-powered, new computers with Thunderbolt 4 USB-C ports. If this keyboard requires more power than be supplied over a USB-C cable that is also transmitting data I/O, then maybe they shouldn't have designed it that way? In other words, this seems like a stretch as a solution to these issues. Flawed firmware and drivers seem much, much more logical problem.
Today, I went out and bought another $200 external HD today with a plan to create a backup and downgrade from macOS Sonoma (14.1) to Ventura 13.6.1 (which N.I. says is fully compatible). But @TomSynsongs says he is running Ventura and having major issues as well. So, I think I just wasted another $200, on top of the $850 for the keyboard and $399 for the Komplete 14 Standard upgrade. I purchased through Sweetwater and will call them next week to arrange refund if NI hasn't been able to address, because this is way beyond the normal problems with new products.
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I'm running Macos 14.0 on a Mac Studio M2 Ultra. KK 3.0.2 with the S61 MK3. As I've mentioned in other posts, I've had issues with some USB-C cables while plugged into either of the front two thunderbolt ports on my Mac. I have not tried the rear ports or any USB-C to A cables.
With the factory USB-C cable and at least one other USB-C cable from a major online retailer, I've experienced the following issues:
Firmware update failing to update when keyboard is in recovery mode (error code -2)
KK not communicating with Keyboard, ie doesn't even register it's connected and keyboard still shows Default MIDI Template Screen.
KK communicating with keyboard but showing the screen below (sorry for the cat hair). Buttons and knobs are unresponsive, however the piano keys work and will play music if an virtual instrument is loaded using the mouse.
KK communicating with the keyboard and displaying the browser, but the keyboard keys stop responding after a random amount of time. Sometimes the browser is played on the keyboard and the knobs don't work at all. Sometimes they work for 10 seconds before they stop responding, and sometimes they work for several minutes before stopping.
I've attempted to troubleshoot this possible cable issue by adding EMI/RF chokes/filters, but so far I have not been able to produce any repeatable results with them. I've added them and thought that was the fix, but then without unplugging the cable, I removed the cores from the cable and it still works. This leads me to believe that there's possibly some sort of cable/connector issue. Unfortunately I don't have a USB-C cable tester to do any quantifiable testing. We're supposed to be getting one at work, but I don't think it will be any time soon.
With all that said. I've had the best luck so far using the USB-C cable that came with the Ableton Live Push 3. With that cable I can connect the S61 MK3 to either of the front two Mac Studio thunderbolt ports and everything works fine without any powered hubs required or additional USB-C power connected to the Mk3.
Edit: Yes I know Macos 14 isn't supported. I didn't realize it was an issue until after I updated. I did it before I got my keyboard and started installing all the software.
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@oobe79 Maybe you have already read my other answers, but just to be sure:
I have had the same issues (no browser, no plugin support) in the first place, but everything is solved by using a USB-C to USB-A adapter attached to a USB-A cable which is connected to a USB-A Hub and adding an external power supply.
Since I have the S61 MK3 connected this way to my Mac Studio, everything works as expected:
The browser is there, I can load whichever library I need into Kontakt 7 and switch presets using the respective keys on the keyboard. Performance is very nice and things look great on the new display.
I am honestly still frustrated that it was necessary to purchase all the additional accessories, invest hours and hours into testing but on the positive side, once you have the keyboard connected as described, the user experience is really a big improvement. Getting rid of the Komplete Kontrol plugin is a gift.
Hope you are getting yours setup as well this way.
Kind Regards
Tom
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I don't own KKS but I have had experiences with some USB devices where there's no proper connection to update firmware if I connect it directly to the computer, using a HUB in between has helped me before - Might be worth a try.
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Quote : "and $399 for the Komplete 14 Standard upgrade."
Most likely you are going to see a sale later this month on Komplete 14 upgrades... 🤔
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Hi @oobe79
Are you still having problems? Support would be a better resource to troubleshoot this issue.
But some ideas, seems the Firmware is ok, its the on-computer software that is not functioning properly.
A couple things to try:
- Make sure Komplete Kontrol, Kontakt, and The Hardware Connection Service are up to date.
- Make sure the the NIHardwareConnectionService is running in the activity monitor.
- Delete everything in the audio / MIDI setup (Show MIDI Studio). This sounds like an issue that QA was having going from MIDI 2.0 back to MIDI 1.
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@Chris_NI all of my Native Instruments applications are current date, as they were downloaded and installed for the first time the day I received my Kontrol MK3 S61 keyboard. I’m not sure what you mean by deleting everything in Audio/MIDI setup.
This is what I’ve done so far.
- I did put in an official Support ticket. It took 3 days for Native Instruments to respond (hence, why I turned to the Community Forums for help). And when they did respond, it was an unhelpful, non-solution that instructed me to make changes to the communication between Logic and Komplete Software, instead of the issue with the S61 keyboard (screen, buttons, and knobs all frozen).
- I wiped my computer (Mac Mini M2 Pro 2023) and downgraded back to macOS 13.6 (Ventura). I then reinstalled literally everything.
- Everything with install worked fine except for Neutron 4 and RX10 Elements. Neutron 4 failed on initial attempt, but then installed on second attempt. But RX 10 Elements will not install, despite taking all necessary steps. As a result, it crashes both Logic’s plug-in validation on startup as well as Komplete standalone application scan during startup. This is a known topic in the Community forums, and I have a separate support ticket in for that. So far, Support has only told me that I cannot install due to running Sonoma. Except that I am running Ventura, which is supposed to be fully compatible, so…
- I purchased a powered USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 hub and compatible high-quality cables. That is scheduled to be delivered today. I will attempt to connect the Kontrol MK3 S61 keyboard to my computer in three separate scenarios, now that I have downgraded my computer to a compatible and tested macOS. #1 The first scenario will be connecting the keyboard to my computer using the Native Instruments supplied USB-C cable from the Host connection on the keyboard and to one of the Thunderbolt USB-C ports on my computer. If everything works, it confirms a software issue that was fixed by downgrading the macOS and/or reinstalling all Native Instruments applications from scratch. #2 The second scenario will be to connect the keyboard to the computer exactly the same way as the first scenario, but with a different, high-quality cable. If the first scenario causes the keyboard to crash, but the second scenario works, this will confirm that a poor quality cable is the problem. #3 The third scenario will be to add the second USB-C cable connection to provide additional power, via the new powered USB-C hub. If the first and second scenarios cause system failure, but the third works, this confirms that there is a design flaw in how this keyboard is supposed to be powered. Because the specs on the Mac Mini 2023 are far beyond the average computer and should be more than adequate to provide both power and data I/O.
I will report back after running these tests. If either the second or third scenario is the answer, then we should expect a fix from Native Instruments, either in the form of a firmware update or a hardware recall, depending on the root cause of these problems. If none of the scenarios above fix the problem, I will reinitiate a return and refund to Sweetwater.
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Here is what happened.
First, NI Support contacted me later today with the direct download link for the RX 10 Elements. It installed without problem. Then, I shut down the computer and plugged the NI-supplied USB-C cable from the host port of the S61 to one one the Thunderbolt 4 ports on the Mac mini. After turning the computer on, then the keyboard, I downloaded the Hardware Connection Service and made sure the NIHardwareAgent had Full Disk Access. I then opened Kontakt, and- holy ******- everything looked right on the keyboard. I could use the Browser and it didn't crash the system. I did not need to move on to the second or third scenarios above. That said, I needed more USB-C ports (2 MIDI controllers, 2 external hard drives, 1 audio I/O, and 1 4k monitor (the Mac mini has 4 USB type-C Thunderbolt 4 ports and two USB-A 3.0). So, I hooked up the powered USB-C hub anyway and decided to connect the S61 controller to extra power via the second USB-C port. So far, Kontakt has crashed on me once, but I am not having the problems I had before at the moment.
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