Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life
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@Matthew_NI - Hello!
I still have a couple pages of comments to catch up on in this thread...but while I'm thinking about it, I did want to say that rumor has it that shipping to major retailers will likely begin next week, with pre-order fulfillment beginning very soon after that. Plus, the NI home page now says "purchase" and not "pre-order" anymore. So we are rapidly thundering toward customers having the product in hand (under hand?).
If a discount for MK1 users is approved, is it going to end up being too late for people who pre-ordered to do anything about it once our credit card charges go through for our MK3 orders?
Really hoping for some financial relief on this, even if it's just a voucher. Hell, I'll even go to the trouble to pack and ship out my MK1 just to take advantage of a voucher of some sort.
Just for conversation purposes, a $100 voucher would be an 11% discount on the 61 key version. That would be a nice help.
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This is all true and I of course agree 100%. However, performance functions (arp, scales, chords) and midi template editing should be done on device, in my opinion, and not via KK. That way, the controller becomes self contained device which can work with any DAW on any platform without drivers and need for a wrapper like KK.
There are presently 3 lines of controllers from 3 different manufacturers which provide this functionality in hardware. I’ve replaced my KK Mk2 with one of those - couldn’t be more happier.
Regarding Impulse - yes, but Novation took an effort and did provide an alternative firmware, not just let it stay as it was “‘until next OS or DAW update would break compatibility”, so that’s the difference.
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"Regarding Impulse - yes, but Novation did provide an alternative firmware, not just let it stay as it was “‘until next OS or DAW update would break compatibility”, so that’s the difference."
Again, the device is class compliant. "Next OS or DAW update" won't break it.
If anything, then DAWs might scratch Maeckie HUI protocol which the Novation uses, because, it's old and obsolete. Cakewalk doesn't fully supports it, for example, and, they have no plans of urther implementation, because they argue that it's old and obsolete.
What I'm saying is that I (once again) don't get the angst. The mk1 still works, as a generic MIDI controller, or even fully with Komplete Kontrol 2.9.4.
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I’m not angry at all. Some people are, for sure - but not me ;)
Class compliant means you can input notes, velocity, pitch bend and modulation data, perhaps CC data from sliders and pots. Novation went one step further and provided alternate DAW control functionality via new firmware, that’s commendable.
Mackie Control and Mackie HUI are STANDARD control protocols in Pro Tools, Cubase/Nuendo, Logic and Studio One. Cakewalk is just having a laugh, really.
I understand where you are coming from, I agree that the issue is being blown out of proportions, but your own example of new firmware for Impulse proves that if there’s will - there’s the way ;)
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Am reluctantly jumping in here because wasting even more time because of NI wont matter much at this point. I have a mk1 keyboard that I really like. I have zero interest in spending a small fortune on an mk3 or even a mk2. I just dont need more screens...pads would have be welcome in at least one of the 2 places where they would fit on my 61 keys mk1. maybe give us some pads when you come up w. a new keyboard..
I dont consider it my bad that I installed the Komplete Kontrol 3.0 update on my pc...I just thought that maybe the ridiculously long load times might improve on my win10 workstation which has plenty of resources. Native Access keeps telling me it cant install v3.6.2 until i restart the app...when i restart the app each time i get the same message...seems as though i will just be stuck on regular vs 3.6 which is no masterpiece. .this software is just kludge built on top of kludge
Why wouldn t the software at least give us a warning that upgrading would trash our mk1's when we click on 'update'?? That is just wrong. so i had to waste all that time getting back to my old version and now no time to make music today. why would we check the release notes on all the stuff we have when NI rarely updates any of my vst instruments...My 3 NI guitars are still stuck on version 1 when they have a newer guitar version out (the Strat) where they could easily port some features over to the Les Paul and Tele and maybe more people would buy those vst's.
It's just a money grab...why upgrade something like the Les Paul or the Tele when you can just create a new guitar vst and hit people up for more $$...NI does do something nice when they throw us a freebie every so often, and I think they have for years just been stacking on more kludge to the Windows OS, so i think this is partly a microsoft issue..dont know about apple stuff
Anyway my rant is over...and i;m going off to do something positive.
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"Class compliant means you can input notes, velocity, pitch bend and modulation data, perhaps CC data from sliders and pots. Novation went one step further and provided alternate DAW control functionality via new firmware, that’s commendable."
It certainly is, and, I was pleasantly surprised by it, and I've even sent Novation a mail to thank them for that kind of support. :) Yes, Native Instruments COULD do something like that as well. But, how is that supposed to look like exactly? They already don't let people out in the rain by providing info how people can go on using the keyboard. It's not as if (as I wrote several times now), the people who still own it can throw it in the trash and be done with it. THAT's what I don't understand. So, I always write that this and this and that still works, and nobody has to throw the keyboard away, and never buy NI again, and what other negative superlatives some people are up to.
It's as if you would throw your car away, just because the car radio isn't Android Auto or Apple Car Play capable.
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If I had KK Mk1, I would have kept it as generic midi controller for sure. No need to throw dirt at NI, the Mk1 series has been supported for 10 years or so. So we are in agreement here...
My comments were more in regard to the idea of "dumb" controller versus "brainy" controller. There was a time when I thought Mk2 plus KK software was THE way and then I decided I don't want to use a wrapper for performance functions, I want to have those functions in hardware. Also, not to have all eggs in one basket and such ;)
Software gets deprecated, like Automap or KK 2.x, hardware usually still works (or breaks, but can be then repurchased or replaced with newer or equivalent model, without changing the entire workflow/DAW/etc.).
Dumb controllers are dumbed down :))) to generic midi controllers when their wrapper software is no longer developed, that was my main takeaway from Mk1 EOL.
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TBH, I think all these wrappers or additional plugins/software are the wrong way. MIDI 2.0 seems to support the bi-directional transmission of parameter values and names, which is something DAWs have to implement to build an universal MIDI (learn) system. Then you don't have to mess with proprietary manufacturers solution anymore, which only work with the respective software of the manufacturer, but not with anything else.
I don't know if some DAWs already do this, or if there are any MIDI 2.0 controllers which already go in that direction. But, I'm sure something will happen in that direction soon.
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Or 6 years or less if you bought it before they announced the MK2 with no prior information.
I'd have more sympathy for NI if they offered actual roadmaps rather than secrecy. Other comapnies do but they're one of the worst for keeping customers in the dark.
The decision to EOL the MK1 S Series being a classic example - no notice for most users and only a tiny fraction got an email 4 days before the launch of KK 3.0. Personally I only found out after I followed the update prompt (they literally tell you to update in Native Access) and then wondered why the new KK wasn't seeing my S88.
Stop being an apologist for corporations, they won't reward you for it. Rather hold them to account to the letter of the law and demand better behaviour towards customers than they currently exhibit.
We only have any consumer protections because customers fought for them. Companies NEVER just give them out of kindness.
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Same thinking here. Midi 2.0 or wider adoption of OSC protocol (EuCon is proprietary to AVID, if I recall and Mackie Control/HUI is very primitive - although it works well for what it is) for bi-directional communication between DAW and controller. We would have avoided all those proprietary wrapper inventions from different manufactures...
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They won't add pads because we'd want them to work with Maschine which would cut a revenue stream for them.
They have a conflict of interest between what their customers want and need and their profit. Guess which one won.
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I'm not an apologist, I'm a realist. Nothing lasts forever, certainly not software support. Novation example proves that things could have been done better. No one is saying otherwise. Due to my disappointment with NI during M1 transition, I have significantly reduced my reliance on their products in my studio - I only use Kontakt and Maschine software now. So we all have our reasons to not be 100% happy with NI.
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Yeah but the problem with that is that it can only display params the way the developer has ordered them, and for many plugins in my experience developers seem to treat controller setups to be an afterthought if it is a thought at all. Many plugins I have made NKS for do not have logical ordering of params so will still look a mess even if you have a bidirectional display.
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Yes, but we cannot have every single studio equipment company coming up with their own wrappers to remedy this. So far, we've had Novation Automap (deprecated), Nektar Nectarine (on its last legs) and Komplete Kontrol. As long as you are happy to use 8 pots for everything and to wrap every single VI into KK to be able to control it via said 8 pots, I guess that's fine ;)
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NKS the last man standing of these 3... And I'm in for the next round of what happens with NKS2
And if MIDI 2.0 somehow finds its legs.. I'll dance with it too.
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