Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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Yeah that's crazy too
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Unless this gets reversed I see no reason for KK to even have samples as they are of very little use now. I used to drag them into Form and several granular engines from the browser.
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Yep I agree.
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Yeah I will jump in here as I already have people emailing me direct (seriously) complaining about how bad the latest version is and I gave up testing in the Beta like everyone else because it was not going to change and I couldn't stand using it (it seriously was making me so mad to use).
In the Beta I raised numerous concerns about not only the memory usage (and also found a rather serious memory leak that apparently affected numerous applications) but about this list of issues I have found that make V3 worse.
Now I know this is the first release and we are being assured there will be improvements (in the "future") but listen to me carefully NI, I have ZERO faith that what we are handed will be improved at all, this is not just bashing for the sake of it. Look at KK V2, the ONLY things ever improved were because NI had to improve those things. Nothing users asked for in 10 YEARS was ever implemented or improved (yeah we got VST3 but not because we asked, only due to being forced by the industry) and now almost EVERYTHING we have asked for and what we loved in V2 has been thrown out and replaced with this..... version that completely misses the mark and serves only to appeal to the new generation that doesn't know of the great workflow of the last software. Perhaps this is a better experience with an MK3 keyboard, but I will likely never know as I will never purchase one with the below issues I will point out.
The Good:
Will let you know on this one, maybe the new colours? Struggling (seriously) to find anything I like.
The Bad:
Grab a coffee or a Beer, u'll be here a while...
Honestly, this is such a mess and infuriates me to the nth degree that someone believes this is a better way than before so please NI (Matt) take note from users who have been using this and have mostly enjoyed itb for 10 years
- Browsing in V2 was hindered by the inability to resize the actual window to see sometimes more than just 3 presets BUT you could resize the preset list, close the tags and have a lot at your view. Great. Now it is a cramped little list that doesn't resize at all.
- You can now no longer browse presets AND use the plugin since you have to switch screens
- The browser is now in a much less intuitive place on the right side instead of left. Almost all DAWs, plugins, windows/macos browser, video/audio editors have content browsing / tree on the LEFT of the interface, because for a billion years that is how humans have grown to use browsing so makes sense. So I guess because this makes sense to everyone, NI decide to now move it to the opposite side of screen and now force you to have to move your view all over the shop. This is obviously a crude attempt to make the software and hardware browsing similar but what works on the hardware does not always work on a full sized screen where you switch between different apps
- The BANKS are useless! Why do we now lose sub banks? I heard it is a possible bug and this was raised WEEKS ago in the Beta, how can this software even get to the Beta stage with a bug like that? I can only assume people are coding with eyes closed, or the coders have never actually used KK in real usage before, seems unacceptable to be a bug. Not only that, because the preset list is so tiny and narrow these are truncated hard.
- Filtering by tags is now clunky because you cannot see both characters and types at the same time. Honestly, in V2 you had SO MUCH info at your initial disposal and now this is all moved into separate panels and views and half the time you haven't a clue you have tag filters applied anymore.
- Editing tags now requires many more clicks to enter into the editor and tagging is now ONLY clicks, you cannot manually type in a tag and apply it if it exists, just tells you like an idiot the tag exists (******)!
- Browsing instrument thumbs is now LIMITED to only 8 instruments instead of being able to browse up to 40+ when you had a large plugin open.
- you STILL cannot resize KK and I do not care what the excuse is, other plugins can do it, Maschine can do it fine and the old software could be manually modified to increase the size, D_One even created a simple tool for mac users to do this.
There is still more more but that alone is basically what made KK a worthwhile investment, I now feel very sorry for those that have ditched the MK2 for the MK3 as V2 KK is so much more usable than V3 as it stands and I for one uninstalled V3 weeks ago in the Beta and have zero plans to update any time soon.
I really hope a flood of people add the same complaints to the pot because lately, all these changes that no one asked for and no one likes are starting to become a real worry as to what is happening back there and who is calling the overall shots, not someone that understands what users want it would seem.
I plan to make a comparison video soon to highlight these flaws and bring some attention to the issue because I want to see something change here and it is clear that unless a LOT of noise is made, things will likely never change.
Conclusion
This was an obvious rush and is in a complete mess of a state. It seriously does not add a single improvement over the previous V2 other than better high res capability but removes real key features and workflow making it somehow less functional and usable than before.
Memory usage of the application is approx 30% higher in all my tests (even after the memory bug I found was addressed) it simply takes more memory per instance to function which for some will really hinder larger projects I am sure.
The biggest impact is it takes the sole purpose of finding a sound fast and adds more clicks, more tabs and even this stupid need to switch views to do the same thing as before, it simply fails to delivered anything positive I am afraid.
I would STRONGLY suggest to anyone who finds at least the core experience of browsing for sounds and finding what you need fast and getting on with production to stao on V2 and hold off purchasing an MK3 for the moment. The features of the MK3 or NKS2 are (IMO) not even close to being worth it at the loss of all that was great. I almost want to say Rip KK, say Hi to Kore for us:(
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Ugh, just keep piling on the disappointment.
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You forgot the ugly :)
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feeling this too, consuming over creating, As many brands synths presets browsers added the same kind of KK browser features, I slowly began using KK less and less, feeling it more like almost an unnecessary layer adding complexity. May be it’s the way I work, doing more sound design than composing 🤷♂️
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I've got another one. Maybe this is unintentional, but...
There's no valid reason to reduce the size of the window to select controls to attribute when creating, or editing pages. Unless, that is, you have two windows being drawn concurrently within the output, stacked one on top of the other.
It's obviously using the previous KK code, because it's identical, only smaller, and less useful. I'm not a coder, but this seems like it's a modal limited to the output area, but is now hampered by the full width and set height design.
It feels like I should point this out - Massive X was the first instance of the new browser, and it works so much better than the original preset browser, and right now, it's better than KK3.
I can change my workflow up, as I did with K7's new browser - I'm used to it now, and it works. But as of right now, even though I have an MK3 on order, it looks like I'll be using Kontakt 7 for Kontakt instruments, and KK 2.9 for plugins. I can get the benefit of NKS2, but for 1st and 3rd party plugins I am close to going back already.
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To address a few of Matts points:
A compromise: we have on our backlog a work package to update to a user experience more similar to that of Kontakt. I cannot promise a delivery timeline, just that it's in the "to be considered" pipeline for all the reasons you mentioned. Resizability in KK is a continued focus from now on, as you've seen.
What I will say, is that the extreme (and I think bad) example of how this could go is in the non-serious image as posted below. So we're doing our best to be thoughtful about how this shows up if (likely if) and when it does.
This is a concern to any user who has known of the "word of NI" for 10+ years
I wont speak for everyone, but when you guys say "We have this considered for the future" that is like when a kid asks for something and their mother says "we will see, maybe later..." that always means no. There is simply no faith that what we have on our plate now will be improved. WHat you guys will do is watch and wait and then when the dust settles on the backlash, carry on with the next thing and hope the new userbase doesn't reignite the debate.
Here it is blunt, just put that browser back on the left as it was before, have the option to simply toggle it open or closed so it can also be used with the plugin open and that would make almost everyone happy. I challenge ANYONE (literally go and find me a single person on the planet) that has used KKV2 before and have them explain to us all, how it is better or more improved in V3.
A regression in tag editing capabilities
Again, you are not alone: this came up in beta too.
WHY NOW?By design: it's something we deprioritised for the initial release, but we intend to improve in future. Very very few users actually use this area of the product - many just consume presets as they are. As the new frameworks were introduced, not everything was brought along immediately, even if there are plans to do so with time. Whereupon this affects a small minority of users - it still matters. So...
That makes zero sense to me that even the ability to find a tag by typing would be crippled but the issue is not simply that it is hard/impossible now, those of us like me that it would impact a great deal don't really matter as we have other ways around this and simply wont use KKV3.
There is the other case such as it is now harder to access this area for a user to even assign a basic user tag, also filtering is now less easy to identify what you have selected as tags and it seems to slow down performance for me when it has to dynamically black out tags.
What irks me is people were finding these problems and raising them months ago in the Beta but nothing was ever addressed about it. I want to see the MK3 really take off and bring in new users and better development (maybe finally), however I feel the development of the software was severely rushed, is completely untested, unreliable and unusable for users of the past software and it is going to really bite back in the coming weeks with people posting YT clips on how bad the experience is now. I mean for me to already have people complaining direct to me (as if I have any weigh in myself) on day 1 screams a problem here:
Hi Jason,
I know that you‘re a busy guy, but I also know that you have direct contacts to the NI development team, so maybe you can get some more information on what actually happened today:
As you might have heard already, NI has released a new KK version (V3.0.0) today which seems to break all the functionality which made KK great, especially for users like me, using your customizable NKS user preset data.
In fact, the categories have been removed by NI as it seems, only tags can be edited anymore (but no longer properties, and some of the previous icons are no longer used in the application.
For example, searching in the application browser on the left side, and keeping an eye on the opened plugin depicted on the right isn’t possible anymore; there is only one application window which you have to toggle.
And the list of lost features, especially mentioning degraded database management, goes on and on…
For someone to open the software and be hit with ALL the same issues I found in 5 minutes of my own experience, has me SERIOUSLY asking WT actual F is going on back there...
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I was disappointed by v3. I echo what JesterMgee says.
Honestly, that mock screen shot with all those presets - that actually looks great. Its funny that's an example of what you don't want to do...we want more presets and information, not less. Sigh.
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I raised that somewhere in the Beta too, I now basically give up spending my time beta testing. If they don't listen to thousands of users asking for something, they aint gonna listen to me half the time. Funnily, they were right onto the memory leak bug because it is only those simple performance things they focus on, anything "cosmetic" gets pushed aside.
Just uninstall it and go back to V2, it is superior in every conceivable way I have found.
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Didn't forget that, just avert your gaze to the top left of screen and take in the rebranded logo. That point was covered in length months ago for its displeasing aesthetic.
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When using as a plugin in Cubase, there's a four second gap after selecting a brand, before the available instruments can be scrolled. This also happens in the standalone app. On further investigation, it appears the length of delay depends on the number of intruments there are under each brand.
For sound type, there's a smaller delay, and for Character's there's hardly any delay.
None of this happened with 2.9.
Instances are not recalled correctly in Cubase, despite them working yesterday with 2.9. I really don't want to get to the stage of having to wite the presets I'm using in each track name...
Sorry, just giving more feedback.
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Clunky user experience. Unintuitive. Feels incomplete. Because it is. 3/10
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There are some really great comments in this thread so far from @Vagus @JesterMgee and @Kymeia
Thank you guys for being so thorough and articulate.
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