Kontakt 7 very very long to launch

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  • Grymt
    Grymt Member Posts: 7 Member
    edited May 12
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    Not just Kontakt7 has a huge problem. Since the updates, Native Access has become horribly slow as well. Probably because of some new horrible DRM stuff…

    So Native Instruments, in stead of fixing things you're actually making the problem worse!

    #FasterLoading

  • KimChristopher
    KimChristopher Member Posts: 13 Member
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    Maybe I mentioned it, but the whole problem seems to be associated with the Service Center... Apparently there is a lot of checking of the licenses for each product. So apparently the more NI you have, the more you suffer from this slowness.
    Take the test. Go to the C:/Common Files/Native Instruments folder and rename the Service Center folder (any name). Then run any plugin, it will launch instantly. Obviously some will ask for a license. To return everything to normal, just rename the folder to what it was.

    As a suggestion, could this arrival (scanning) not only be done once after installation? Does it really need to be done with each plugin release?

    #FasterLoading

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 623 Pro
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    That probably explains the slowness I see coming from Windows Defender if I don't turn off real time virus & threat protection. It also probably accounts for why the first time I run an NI product on a given day, it's slower than when I run it later that same day. I would assume that's all part of NI's verification process to avoid pirated software, but I agree there's probably ways to improve that and still be secure without constant scanning. That would avoid any problems with different anti-virus software programs.

  • KimChristopher
    KimChristopher Member Posts: 13 Member
    edited May 16
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    Exactly!

    I believe this check could be simplified, mainly because no system is really effective against piracy.

    Not even the ilok.

    I really don't understand why companies still care so much about this. Everyone, absolutely all software can and is pirated.

    Of course, I'm not saying to leave it completely exposed, some "brake" is necessary, but I don't see any real difference in having a simple serial number, checked once during the first installation, or a system that checks constantly. In the end, both can be cracked.

    That said, it's important to think about paying customers. These deserve to have simplified, easy and lightweight software. This encourages updates and builds loyalty.

    Beautiful interfaces and serial checks is secundary, in my opinion.

  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo Member Posts: 246 Advisor
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    When any anti piracy thing is implemented, paying customers almost always (can’t think of a case where this isn’t true) end up being penalised yet a 5 sec Google usually still finds a cracked version.

    The cracked version obviously has the anti pirate bits removed or bypassed, end result is the pirate has a version that runs much better.


  • KimChristopher
    KimChristopher Member Posts: 13 Member
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    I must agree. Take the case of Cubase... Because of the dongle, many paying users complained about how cumbersome and annoying the security process was. Aside from bugs and restarts. Finally, Yamaha gave up on this nonsense and simplified the process. No dongle, just a serial. Respect finally.

    #FasterLoading

  • pbthrash
    pbthrash Member Posts: 35 Member
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    Dear NI support (and dear users who comment this) - you may have right that checking licenses slows down Kontakt 7. But I want to remind you that Kontakt 6 checks licenses as well, and still opens A LOT faster than Kontakt 7. Since we're using fast drives (except when someone uses classic HDD), no matter how many files Kontakt must check, it MAY be done much better and much faster.

    This is not the reason for Kontakt opens slow. I asked support once about slow opening Massive X. After few emails and sending videos, I finally was able to ask NI support to send me their video that shows how fast Massive X opens on their computer. I receive that video and see the same slowness as on my computer - about 10 seconds to open! Plus - I get information that… "10s waiting time is acceptable". So don't be surprised that they do not care about speed - if NI was happy about 10 second opening synth, then they will be happy as well to slow opening Kontakt and no matter how many emails or posts do you write - they'll not focus on speed improvement, because this factor is not important for NI. Apparently musicians are very patient and can wait.

  • KimChristopher
    KimChristopher Member Posts: 13 Member
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    Thanks for the feedback.
    It is regrettable to see that this is NI's thinking, because any great industry professional emphasizes the importance of optimization and efficiency.

    For me, 10s can really hinder a creative process. It takes 10 seconds to open the plugin, another 20 seconds to choose which library and a few more seconds to load it... Anyway.


    If you can optimize this, it would be incredible, if you can't, maybe you'll lose sales in the future, maybe not...

    UVI's instruments have proven to be more efficient, and some native things from Reason, Halion, etc. can also make the flow more objective.

    When we suggest these improvements, they are not one-way requests, they are an improvement so that the Kontakt product is always the first choice.

    #FasterLoading

  • sacer11
    sacer11 Member Posts: 53 Helper
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    I got an email from NI with an beta of Kontakt 7.

    I have tried out the new Kontakt download, it is now much faster. It takes only 15 seconds, after closing DAW and restarting Ableton to open Kontakt 7 it takes on the second run only 6 seconds  - before it was one minute too like the first start. When i don't close the DAW - remove Kontakt 7 and open it again it takes 2 seconds! Kontakt 6 and Kontakt 5 both take only 5 seconds on the first run. So the 15 seconds of Kontakt 7 on first start up on Ableton is better, but could get better !!! It's 3 times slower than Kontakt 6

    Also Maschine 2.16 (6 seconds), Battery 4.2 (3sec), Guitar Rig 6.3 (2 sec) Komplete Kontrol 2.8 (6sec) -> all latest versions of these Plugins take one Minute like Guitar Rig 7 (48 sec) and Battery 4.3 (57 sec)

    So it depends on amount of plugins and files in these folders. Why have these plugins to scan my VST3 and VST2 folder ?

    I have more than 1300 vst3 and 700 vst2

    But in these folders are more than 30.000 files, because some vendors include their libraries and presets in these folders like linplug and tone2

  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo Member Posts: 246 Advisor
    edited May 28
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    It’s amazing how long software/hardware starting up can really affect the creative process.

    I bought a Korg Kronos shortly after it’s release, I sold it for exactly the same reason, I’d get an idea, turn the Kronos on, by the time it was finally ready to play, idea was gone.

    My desktop PC would boot in a third of the time.


    A quick google and I’ve found a vid about it

  • JBlongz
    JBlongz Member Posts: 13 Member
    edited May 31
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    After taking time to compare, there is a HUGE difference in K7 launch time between Mac and Windows. Here my tested machines' specs and launch time for running Kontakt 7.10.4

    MacOS Sonoma M1 Macbook Pro (8 Cores: 4P, 4E) 16GB Ram

    • 4 seconds (Standalone/Plugin)

    Windows 11 Pro Desktop: AMD 5900x (12 Cores) 128gb DDR4 RAM, NVME storage

    • 37 seconds (standalone/plugin)

    Windows 11 Home Laptop: Intel i7-12700H (14 Cores: 6P, 8E), 64GB DDR5 RAM, NVME storage

    • 40 seconds (standalone/plugin)

    So what is it about the MacOS implementation that launches K7 sooo much faster?

  • pbthrash
    pbthrash Member Posts: 35 Member
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    I think it depends on what is the base and what is the copy. If, for example, you have a program for quick indexing and searching of files in NTFS on Windows, and you would like to awkwardly transfer this program to a Mac on its filesystem and replace the procedure of reading the NTFS table with regular indexing of directories - the effect would be several dozen times slower. But the functionality would be the same.

    So if someone did the library checking procedure well on Mac and optimized it, and then someone else clumsily ported it to Windows and didn't care that these systems work differently, this is the result we get.

    Of course, I'm guessing, because it may also happen that someone else's Kontakt will open in 30 seconds on a different Mac. It is easiest to perform universal procedures, regardless of how much time they take. If you use the most advanced system to create a simple online store, simply clicking on a product will result in a wait of several seconds and hundreds of unnecessary queries to the database. But who would want to create their own solutions? It's important that creators have it easy - users can wait.

  • KimChristopher
    KimChristopher Member Posts: 13 Member
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    So, I must tell you here that this is actually a problem reported by many users.
    With that in mind, NI sent me a beta version of Komplete 7 that actually opens in a few seconds. On my PC, without changing any settings, it performed similarly to Kontakt 6 and in some cases even faster!
    So we should hope that future updates fix this!
    I hope they extend these changes to Guitar Rig 7 and Massive X which also have long release times.
    Let's wait!

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 10,440 mod
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    Hey all, a new Kontakt update will be out soon addressing these long loading times on Windows. We don't have an ETA yet .

  • PhatMonkey
    PhatMonkey Member Posts: 34 Member
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    It has been over a year, with each update it becomes a longer loading time, I dont hold out much hope this will be addressed at all, just being honest, as well as the increased loading times for Guitar Rig 7, Battery 4. Native Instruments take over of other companies has had a significant impact on quality….

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