KK 2.8: will it load VST3 or VST2?

Rikk Show
Rikk Show Member Posts: 91 Member

What the title says. If I have both VST3 and VST2 versions of a plugin installed (and scanned by KK) will KK 2.8 load the VST3 or VST2 version?

I guess there are are two realistic scenarios:

1. I load a NKS preset

2. I open up a project in my DAW that was made with KK 2.7.

Is there a way to see what was loaded?

I'm on Windows 10. Thanks!

Best Answer

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,473 Expert
    Answer ✓

    In tests I have done, if you used VST2 in your project and it is available to KK it will load the VST2 version of the plugin. This is regarding 3rd party plugins, I am pretty sure NI plugins will all use the latest version or select VST3 as the plugin over VST2.

    If the VST2 plugin does not exist then "possibly" VST3 will load in place but this needs developers to have paid attention to making their VST3 plugin loadable from VST2 plugin calls which seems to only be a few cases of this, more often than not you get "plugin not found"

    You can check what version of a plugin has been loaded by clicking the menu>instruments and seeing which is greyed out in VST2 or VST3.

    This means VST3 has been loaded

Answers

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,473 Expert
    Answer ✓

    In tests I have done, if you used VST2 in your project and it is available to KK it will load the VST2 version of the plugin. This is regarding 3rd party plugins, I am pretty sure NI plugins will all use the latest version or select VST3 as the plugin over VST2.

    If the VST2 plugin does not exist then "possibly" VST3 will load in place but this needs developers to have paid attention to making their VST3 plugin loadable from VST2 plugin calls which seems to only be a few cases of this, more often than not you get "plugin not found"

    You can check what version of a plugin has been loaded by clicking the menu>instruments and seeing which is greyed out in VST2 or VST3.

    This means VST3 has been loaded

  • Rikk Show
    Rikk Show Member Posts: 91 Member

    Great answer thanks.

    I can try to rename some VST2 files to: plugin.dll.bak and see what happens, if the VST3 gets loaded or not and if my custom graphics show in KK/Maschine.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,488 Expert

    Plugins that this should work with will include all by AAS, Serum, iZotope, Vital, and Sugarbytes plugins that support NKS

    but most won’t yet as they don’t migrate from VST2 to VTS3 and need updates to enable that

  • Rikk Show
    Rikk Show Member Posts: 91 Member

    I noticed that U-He renamed Diva from Diva_x64 to Diva for the VST3. The VST3 version is missing some graphics and all the NKS files point to the Diva_x64 version, ie VST2.

    My god what a mess. Seems they had zero quality check in regards to NKS functionality.

    I hope NI never drops VST2 in KK and Maschine, but I guess they will at some point when Apple screws it up again and Steinberg won't update the VST2 SDK.

    Anyhow it works for now.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,473 Expert

    They won’t drop anything, just M1 users lose this ability, if you are windows you will be just fine .

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,488 Expert
    edited November 2022

    It's nothing to do with quality, the reason is historical. In the past when all operating systems (Mac and Windows) were making the transition from 32 bit to 64 bit they had to create separate 32 bit and 64 bit versions for the VST2, now I think 32 bit isn't supported so they dropped that but for backwards compatibility with projects they would have been stuck with the x64 in the dll name. That is a limitation of VST2 compared to VST3; VST3 allows developers to bundle more than one version inside the same plugin so they didn't need to do this for the VST3. This just shows one of the hurdles many plugin developers will need to overcome to enable migration - it's not as easy as some people seem to think and I am sure will take some effort and time and we can't just expect them to drop what they are doing and devote everything to making migration work, it may not be a top priority so we will have to be patient and understanding.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,488 Expert
    edited November 2022

    The good news is it may not matter what the plugin filename is - if migration is built in to the plugin it must have a way to notify the host which VST3 to load. Been testing migration with Valhalla plugins and they migrate fine despite the VST2 being named with a x64 on the end of the filename and the VST3 not

  • Rikk Show
    Rikk Show Member Posts: 91 Member

    I think it is correct to say that migration is handled in the plugin and by the host. U-He missed that.

    The NKS graphics ARE linked to the plugin name. U-He missed that as well.

    My IKMM FX show the graphics correctly when using VST3 (the plugin names are the same), but they do not migrate to VST3 if I open a saved preset that was saved with the VST2.

    Same with Plugin Alliance, graphics show for VST3. BUT the PA plugins, VST3 version, no longer display the preset list in Maschine like their VST2 did. Some VST do, so it is not a Maschine issue. It means you cannot even redo the NKS files.

    Those that do not migrate, we users are left to redo all the mapping and every NKS preset.

    I think that qualifies to be called A MESS. But not NIs mess, a mess made by the plugin manufacturers.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,488 Expert
    edited November 2022

    Yes NKS graphics are linked to the plugin name but that's an easy fix for the user (eg just delete the x64)

    As I said the reason for names like x64 in older plugins is historical - it's not fair to expect developers to have foreseen changes like this in the future and while I'm sure they will eventually support migration they have other projects on the go too and NKS may not be a priority. I think we need to be more patient or we risk some developers just saying goodbye to NKS completely over this.


    And the PA ones I have tested do show the presets (eg Unfiltered audio, thorn, bx Oberhausen, Knifonium)

  • Rikk Show
    Rikk Show Member Posts: 91 Member

    U-he could have installed the graphics in a Diva folder. Super easy to do during the VST3 installation. Use the same graphics they used for the VST2, and add it to the Diva folder. This is a minor issue though. And I don't think U-He will abandon NKS for this minor quality issue.

    The big issue is that many VST2s are not able to migrate to VST3, but that is not NKS specific, it will most likely be the same mess in all DAWs that support migration.

    I think customers have right complain about something the manufactured have had 10+ years to figure out.

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