Maschine roadmap
Comments
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Woah, did you say implied somebody lied and that isn't the case? maybe not with this Soundwide version of NI, but previously they where lying all the time, were you not around for it all? there are some really big famous ones that even became memes, before meme culture haha.
Also lets not bring Traktor in to this at all, I have a lot of money invested in Traktor, soft and hard and expecting me to go subscription for features that are quite frankly a joke, is ridiculous (seriously, did anybody read the last email for Tracktor, you have to have a sub for F1 factory mapping, so, buy our software, buy our hardware, but hey, make sure you buy the sub so they work together as intended) there is a reason why it is the brunt of a lot of jokes now in the DJ community.
If roadmap = subs Traktor style, damn, imagine buying Maschine hardware to find out you have to buy Maschine software too, to find out you need a sub for the driver for it to work together (Essentially where Traktor is)
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@Flexi said:
Woah, did you say implied somebody lied and that isn't the case? maybe not with this Soundwide version of NI, but previously they where lying all the time, were you not around for it all? there are some really big famous ones that even became memes, before meme culture haha.
I affirmed it, note I can only talk about Maschine, I don't pay attention to Traktor or Kontakt or anything else tbh. I been around since 2013 give or take but IDK what you're referring to so yeah maybe I wasn't around or forgot something... Could you give a couple of examples of the lies you're speaking of? Now I'm curious.
Also lets not bring Traktor in to this at all, I have a lot of money invested in Traktor, soft and hard and expecting me to go subscription for features that are quite frankly a joke, is ridiculous (seriously, did anybody read the last email for Tracktor, you have to have a sub for F1 factory mapping, so, buy our software, buy our hardware, but hey, make sure you buy the sub so they work together as intended) there is a reason why it is the brunt of a lot of jokes now in the DJ community.
I don't like subscriptions either and that F1 map thing sounds horrible but feel like that's totally unrelated to what's being discussed here.
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- Recording Jam triggers in to arrangement, Coming soon. (Wasnt it even a sticker on the box? )
- V2 was rewritten because it was the inly way we can do regular big updates. (The developer who left, covered how this was nonsense elsewhere) and of course the regular big updates never came.
- Of course we aren’t ignoring Maschine development, followed years later by….we are sorry, we have ignored Maschine development for the last few years blah blah blah.
There is a ton more, especially around the whole Kore debacle etc, but obviously non of it can be found now, the forum is gone, but this is a different NI, but unless you only visit this forum and no other music forum, you know this already and how terrible NIs reputation has been for years now, I have an extra ten years on you, so have heard it all from NI in the past hahaha.
Lets be clear here, not this new NI/Soundwide, yet, but it does not make me or anybody else inclined to believe anything they say, convince me with actions not words, that is the only trust they have left (And up until the latest KUCE poor update, I have owned nearly everything NI ever made, and will still buy more if i like it and have a use, but trust them, erm no)
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Hum... IDK.. it seems you're mixing your disappointment with the state of things with actually being deceived with actual lies. I wasen't around for Kore so I cant comment if there were lies on that situation, all I knows is owners got screwd.. but the Jam + Performance Recording was indeed a major fiasco, personally I consider that more of a failed promise but yeah, from that to a lie there isn't much difference if at all, i'll give you that... That was a long time ago tho.
AFAIK performance rec failing is the exact reason why big things that are subject to change aren't shared anymore but after that everything that was said that would happen did so, Clips, VST3, Auto-Sampler, etc...
V2 did give more regular updates, they are just very underwhelming and the same goes for ignoring users desires, as pissed as I am for both things, to the point I don't even use Maschine anymore considering both a 'lie' is a bit of a stretch IMO. Might be subjective tho, perhaps not an ´im right/wrong´ kind of deal and more of an opinion? Regardless your 'not trusting' philosophy seems reasonable altho there has never been any big promises since Jam... and there wont be anytime soon imo.
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How about „We will port additional instruments to Maschine+“.
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Probably the first Maschine lie: Battery 3 is fully integrated (or compatible - I can't completely remember). This was Maschine 1.1 - years before VST hosting. It was a sticker right on the front of Maschine's box which they removed after awhile.
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There is an absolute ton of lies by the old NI, I just don't actually care enough to have remembered them all at this point, but hey, must be just opinion that they are well known as liars across social media ;)
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In 2020 they made this claim.
Native Instruments has offered an intriguing update regarding the future of its Maschine platform, noting that its ultimate goal is to “get to a point where you can produce tracks start to finish” when using it.
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So, if we should never believe anything NI says then basically that means that no one in the company should push for more communication... right? Because there are only 2 options here:
Either there's more communication at the risk of priorities changing and some things not materializing, ETA's not being met, etc, which = "lies" or... there's complete silence. The latter seems like a much easier solution for whoever is in charge, it completely removes any liability from the company, so in that case, all is good as is. 🤷♂️
Personally, I would prefer more communication with the risks it entails because things happen as said way more often than "lies" from my experience, (only a few years which might be a short experience compared to some of you) I think it still benefits the users more. If we have to go back to 2010 or 2014 to dig some stuff that didn't happen then sure.. it's still a bad look but is it the rule, or the expectation? Saying it's the rule sounds a bit unfair.
You guys are the users, it's up to you, yall should push for whatever you think is best. Personally idc, I usually know what's about to happen either from my position, betas, or just by snooping around in the code. If I even bother to engage with users here it's because I care about you guys, idc about the company.
Interesting... Couldn't have been many years because VST came 2 years after the initial release, so this happened in the span of the first 2 years, between V1.0 and V1.6. It def wasn't V1.1 as there's nothing about Battery in the 1.1 news from that time, maybe 1.3 or something?
Who said that? Are you sure it wasn't the usual "We hope to bring more instruments in the future, we do extensive testing before adding new instruments to ensure bla bla bla" ??
Their idea of 'start to finish' was to start off with Clips to deal with the arrangement, and they did; was it disappointing? For me yes! Some folks seem to love it tho.
Still, I don't think there's any lies there, the article is riddled with wording such as "ultimate goal" with no ETA, "you might not have to wait long", it's all very ambiguous, speculative, and hypothetical.
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The addition of VST was only 2 years!!! Time flies. Development was so much faster in version 1. So fast that I got in the habit of checking the forum everyday never knowing what lied ahead.
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@D-One asked:
Who said that? Are you sure it wasn't the usual "We hope to bring more instruments in the future, we do extensive testing before adding new instruments to ensure bla bla bla"??
Naturally, I’m not sure and with the old forum gone, search is even more difficult. It might have been mentioned in a video. Hints are definitely around.
From the Maschine+ FAQ page:
All future Expansions will be supported by MASCHINE+, and we will consider other instruments and effects based on performance and the needs of our customers.
The only addition I remember was the Polysynth/Pro-53 - which nobody actually asked for, but is a useful instrument nonetheless.
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I think they also added Vintage Organs somewhat accidentally some months back.
Hardly a huge windfall but mildly interesting.
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We've been asking for Maschine, Komplete, and Komplete control keyboard roadmaps for YEARS. The one thing you can pretty much bet on is that NI will go "radio silent" when they're getting ready to bork (or outright discontinue) a product. Kore 2, The Guitar Rig controller, and a half-dozen older Komplete products come to mind.
And yes, "moving on" is what you, as a Native Instruments customer, may need to be prepared to do. I gave up waiting for Guitar Rig, and now have a pickup truck full of stomp pedals. I don't need a Guitar Rig that doesn't work with the old hardware! That's so lame, NI.
I gave up waiting for a new version of Maschine Studio, and now have an Ableton Push. I gave up waiting for a new version of Komplete Control, and am now waiting for a Seaboard 2 keyboard from Roli.
For years, Native has held their lifecycle roadmap information close to the vest, ostensibly in an effort to not "give away" valuable information to their competitors.
But this is 2023, and that's just lazy-think. I expect more of a partnership with my hardware and software vendors, and that secretive behavior on the part of ANY hardware or software vendor is just SO 1990s. That old thinking will only end up hurting the vendor. I damned well expect to have a more open relationship with my suppliers or vendors and I will no longer tolerate being ignored.
If NI can't change their behavior and come into the 2020s with the rest of us, then maybe we each need to start seeing other people more, lol. I was always reliable for a fast upgrade to the next version of Komplete, but just like my choices in relationships, now I think a lot harder on it. And I won't wait forever on hardware upgrades, either. Maschine+ is under-CPU'd. Why would I subject myself to more limitations, especially when I already have four I7 to I9 and M1 computers that can run all of this stuff easily even when stepped down because it's running on battery power?
NI needs to get off its arse and start communicating, or it will lose more future purchases from me and people like me. Saying in October that you're "thinking of communicating more" and nothing happening halfway into March is not exhibiting the behavior I want to see. NI can and should do better. Y'all don't have THAT many customers to lose.
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Yeah, digging up old info is a pain now. :(
Oh, I see... Well, "consider" means what it means, which is not much... In your eyes that's a "lie"? I'm legit getting confused about some of these statements now...
Yeah, I think so, this article talking about it is from 2011. IDK if "lied ahead" was an intentional pun or not but I gotta give it to you, that was funny! 😂
For the first few versions, I can only find articles for 1.1, 1.5 and 1.6 onwards. Nothing about 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 maybe that's where that battery thing you mentioned happened, also couldn't find any old pics with that sticker.
Anyway, "lie constantly" seems like a vastly exaggerated statement to me, especially if not backed up but anything other than the Jam thing but hey... I'm not here to change anyone's mind
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@D-One asked
Oh, I see... Well, "consider" means what it means, which is not much... In your eyes that's a "lie"?
No, it’s not as an isolated statement. And as mentioned, I wasn’t able to find the statement I remember. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was removed. I’d put the above quote from the product page rather in the category of broken promises. There’s another similarly vague statement right next, hinting at more NI plugins to being made available. Which, again, is cleverly formulated to trick the prospective customer into thinking it meant something („why would they publish it on their product page otherwise?“).
This whole behavior, with all those possible considerations, meaningless expressions and hints of things to never happen is deceptive behavior. Which is the way of swindlers and liars. And as such, it’s hard to track down and prove by a single sentence quoted out of context.
In the end, it’s rather tiresome and exhausting. Buying music production tools is not politics. And we’re not the enemy.
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