NI - Is there a technical reason why we can't save, or view Multis in KK?

Vagus
Vagus Member Posts: 412 Pro

Hey @Matt_NI I know everyone on the forum wants to save layered presets, with multi-instruments and FX, and that really is a dream of the future.

With that said, is there a technical reason why we can't view, load, or save Kontakt Multis in KK? As the .nksn format is a contrainer to load a state within KK, why is this not possible?

Ultimately, NKS/Player libraries in KK aren't showing all possible presets because of this, and for the life of me, I can't think of a code-based reason why this isn't possible.

Best Answer

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Member Posts: 350 Pro
    edited September 2022 Answer ✓

    AFAIK, KK was designed to operate as a hardware extension wrapper for a SINGLE NKS instrument.

    However, if you load Kontakt into KK and then load or create a Multi instrument rack, it can be saved as a preset in KK or in Kontakt as a multi. But only the first instance will be operable from the HW/SW interface using the smart controls. You can get the Kontakt virtual keyboard to reflect the particular instrument in the rack by highlighting the instance header in orange, but that doesn't allow multiple keyboard layers or splits to work unless you're in MIDI mode on the HW in my experience.

    KK actually has a very tiny footprint and I run DAW templates with up to 80+ instances wrapping NKS instruments without issues.

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Answers

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Member Posts: 350 Pro
    edited September 2022 Answer ✓

    AFAIK, KK was designed to operate as a hardware extension wrapper for a SINGLE NKS instrument.

    However, if you load Kontakt into KK and then load or create a Multi instrument rack, it can be saved as a preset in KK or in Kontakt as a multi. But only the first instance will be operable from the HW/SW interface using the smart controls. You can get the Kontakt virtual keyboard to reflect the particular instrument in the rack by highlighting the instance header in orange, but that doesn't allow multiple keyboard layers or splits to work unless you're in MIDI mode on the HW in my experience.

    KK actually has a very tiny footprint and I run DAW templates with up to 80+ instances wrapping NKS instruments without issues.

  • Rikk Show
    Rikk Show Member Posts: 98 Helper

    It would basically be a Maschine group but without the midi routing? My understanding is Maschine and KK are separate code bases even though they have similarities, but if Maschine can layer and save it can only be a question of effort and time investment imo.

    But yeah, this is high on my wishlist.

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper

    I've asked for this for years, apparently NI dev's are not capable of implementing this. If it was possible, it would have been done by now. NI basically make sample libraries now, and can't seem to code the way they used to EG: Kore 1,2 Apparently NI lost alot of their good coders?


    Whats the point of having a thousand instruments if you can't layer them at all, pretty sad where NI is today.

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper
    edited September 2022

    To your point, Yes all NI would have to do is add code for Multi-timbral support in Komplete Kontrol,completely possible and really should have been implemented by now.

    The times, the minority of users who brought this feature request up here or the older forums, it was often met with, " why would you want that, when you can do it in your daw, etc.. "

    Perhaps some still don't understand the point of sound design beyond a single patch, where layering, recalling large multitimbral setups, all while being able to search with your keyboard would be the undeniable modern workhorse. Most Pro Musicians who gig for a living and understand the need for Multi's on a workstation rely on these seups. Studio composers again know that Multi templates are critical, yet are tied to our DAWs.


    This request would have been the first real CPU based midi controller with a screen and browser/database option to be able to switch real time Multi templates for other Multi templates , all while not having to disturb your midi / tracking process while in a daw. Well what happend you ask? No go, they couldn't see it.


    I can't blame NI, I put more blame on the customers for not seeing the power in this.

    I'm not a EDM guy,so perhaps NI feels as if Kontakt's already has Multi support, so that's enough for the content creators / composers? I don't know.

    Perhaps another company will offer this in the future. I see a few companies now that have the ground work complete, but lack everything else that NI already has refined ( hardware / sequencer ) ,as mentioned above. Another company I know for sure are making strides to perfect it, yet they dropped the ball, when they had the sun shining on them.

    In my humble opinion , Kore was probably the best software NI has ever made with deeper midi functions, and since NI dropped it, they've never had anything close to it in terms of midi support.

    Maschines not even close ( I own the MK3 and do like it ). Imagine Kore being married to Komplete Kontrol then being sequenced in Maschine and integrated / optimized properly for modern cpu's. This is what those that asked for Multi-timbral support already could envision.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,703 mod
    edited September 2022

    This is why for Multi patches I use NewsonicArts Freestyle inside KK. It was created by the developer who created Kore and Maschine, is regularly updated, supports VST3 plugins, and any macros you create with it can easily be setup to work with the KK controller (also morphing is in development)

    As a bonus it makes the KK window freely resizable

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper

    Kymeia, I ended up buying Freestyle awhile ago because of your recommendations, stellar bit of kit. Still I do hope one day NI realizes what they have and add's Multi-timbral support. And if we haven't told you enough, your contributions to Komplete Kontrol are among the best.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,703 mod

    Thankyou 😊

  • ginko
    ginko Member Posts: 23 Member
    edited October 2022

    I have actually spent the last two weeks resurrecting Kore on my Mac Pro running Catalina and I can report it now works flawlessly and I am very happy to have it back..what a joyous and genius thing!! (Kontakt 6 and Reaktor 6 both load fine in Kore2) I mean it's just so so so much better than Komplete Kontrol (or anything really thats come out in the decade since it's abandonment). Kore was the best software N.I ever made. Komplete Kontrol pales in comparison.

    I mean you can't even resize KK's interface...why don't NI just do that?? It's easy to do as there is a freely available hack to do it. But they just can't seem to be bothered for some reason.


    But that's half the story. Kore is on another level on every level...the morphing, the slot system, the hardware controller, (I have Kore1 controller- nice!) the 'multi-sound as sound' concept, the GUI, the incredible browser, the list goes on and on.

    I think basically NI realised that it WAS TOO GOOD, so had to kill it otherwise it was all over, nothing left to make. Also the idea of neutralising whatever plugin was behind the sound- not good business sense!

    Today I had Ashlight and Kore's Acoustic Refractions side by side. I mean Acoustic Refraction is one thousand times better..every preset is a world of exploration. Ashlight cannot compete. Just saying.

    I'm locking down my MacPro with Kore on it and I will take Kore to my grave.

    It is as good as music tech gets...unless NI pulls their proverbial out of their proverbial.

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper
    edited October 2022

    If you've ever really wondered what happened to Native Instruments brilliance , well here's the actual original Native Instruments developer / creator of reaktor etc. take a look at what he's building now. ;)

    Stephan Schmitt


  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper
    edited November 2022

    Completely different developers and company as a whole. The original creator as seen above is on another level. So we're the developers that left NI and are now at New Sonic Arts.

    Native also lost over 100 employees not too long ago, but retained a Multi million dollar contract. Corporations are never good for creative arts. Unless you we're the one who actually created the thing, they're heart doesn't seem in it anymore. I never understood, why NI tore down Kore and built Komplete Kontrol, it's chasing a legend, perhaps contractual agreements?

    NI today are good at hiring talented sound designers for existing products with the infrastructure already done. Though somewhere down the road it seems they lost the developers that could actually fit the demands of end users and customers with greater needs.

    Agreed! I'm grateful Kore still works ;)

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper
    edited November 2022

    Which begs to question , why Multi instrument support isn't supported. The whole one instrument only excuse is getting a little old now, especially when dealing with sound design.

    There are simply times when one synth/instrument cannot provide all the flavors you may need in a sound.

    There are times when you want an incredible subtractive synth, along with a wavetable synth, along with an arp doing FM or however your creative mind see's fit. Then add a bass playing only the low bass notes, all of which was possible in Kore many many moons ago.


    It's ridiculous they haven't added it by now, and NI knows it.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,703 mod

    I miss Kore - just update it and call it Komplete Kontrol 3 ;)

  • trusampler
    trusampler Member Posts: 72 Helper

    Truth hurts

  • chk071
    chk071 Member Posts: 361 Pro

    Idiocy hurts.

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