Features in Maschine SW but not on Maschine+ standalone

tribepop
tribepop Missouri, USAMember Posts: 105 Tri

Hi I'm still learning all the specifics of my M+ and how it differs from the SW while in standalone mode. I'm just wondering if anyone has a list of features that aren't available in standalone so that I can get a better idea of what kind of workarounds I'll need to come up with when working exclusively in standalone mode.

So far the two things I've noticed is:

  • No one-click ability to export track to audio (in SW, you can click the icon above the note editor to automatically export the track's audio and drop it on another track). Obviously this feature uses the PC's GUI, but it kind of sucks not having an option in M+. The current workflow is to create another sound/group and sample the audio internally there.
  • No startup templates. This isn't a huge issue, I just copied over the template to the SD and just have to remember to "Save As..." everytime I open it.

Anyone notice anything else that's very useful but is only implemented in the SW version?

Best Answer

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod
    edited September 6 Answer ✓

    Nah, audio export is available in from the File menu, Export Audio is under the top Button-5.

    No template is a bit odd/annoying but you can make it a bit easier on yourself by locking or making the file 'read-only' from your computer, this way you won't ever accidentally save over it.

    Anyone notice anything else that's very useful but is only implemented in the SW version?

    What's useful is quite subjective but the differences are mostly about things you do with a mouse or things that directly correlate to a full OS, at the top of my head:

    • No content tagging or editing.
    • No MIDI Mapping ability.
    • No way to edit Modulation.
    • Limited file management, file-browsing, user lib folder structure and no direct "File" browser.
    • No way to export/import MIDI.
    • No custom Metronome sounds.
    • Limited Audio Export options.
    • No Audio Interface settings available like Buffer Size, Sample Rate, etc... even with external interfaces.

    There's probably a lot more I cant remember atm

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Answers

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod
    edited September 6 Answer ✓

    Nah, audio export is available in from the File menu, Export Audio is under the top Button-5.

    No template is a bit odd/annoying but you can make it a bit easier on yourself by locking or making the file 'read-only' from your computer, this way you won't ever accidentally save over it.

    Anyone notice anything else that's very useful but is only implemented in the SW version?

    What's useful is quite subjective but the differences are mostly about things you do with a mouse or things that directly correlate to a full OS, at the top of my head:

    • No content tagging or editing.
    • No MIDI Mapping ability.
    • No way to edit Modulation.
    • Limited file management, file-browsing, user lib folder structure and no direct "File" browser.
    • No way to export/import MIDI.
    • No custom Metronome sounds.
    • Limited Audio Export options.
    • No Audio Interface settings available like Buffer Size, Sample Rate, etc... even with external interfaces.

    There's probably a lot more I cant remember atm

  • tribepop
    tribepop Missouri, USAMember Posts: 105 Tri
    edited August 29

    Thanks for all the info, that's good to know. Regarding the export audio, I'm talking about the icon in the SW that bounces a selected Sound (track) to an audio file and then dropping the file on to a new track so that I don't have to resample it manually from another group. I don't think the Maschine+ has a way to do this in standalone.

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod

    On the MAS-desktop version, drag-and-drop is just a shortcut for the Export Menu, for example, if you change the Options settings in the Export Menu it changes how drag-and-drop works...

    It's not a bounce feature, I see how it might seem that way for someone who only uses it internally but it's not. It exports the audio and places it where you let go of the mouse, it can be to a DAW or to your OS filesystem too; since Maschine supports dragging wavs into Pads/Sounds the drag-and-drop ends up exporting the sound and loading it back in - effectively working as a bounce feature but that's not really was it was specifically designed for.

    I guess what you're truly asking is for 1 click bounce feature, something many people requested many times even before the M+ came out. Exporting and loading it back in the M+ will be slow without a mouse, so resampling is indeed the most practical way unless what you're resampling is huge in length.

  • tribepop
    tribepop Missouri, USAMember Posts: 105 Tri

    Ah gotcha, that makes sense and is super cool. So if I export the audio how can I load it back into a sampler within M+? I know I can access my user folder but doesn’t it put the exports in a different folder that I can’t easily access the from the HW?

    I guess what I’d really like is just the ability to freeze tracks which essentially is just bouncing the track to audio and disabling the plugins in one button.

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 158 Saw
    1. Export your track (tip: use solo to get just a group or sound)
    2. Rescan your library
      1. browse > user > hold shift > rescan (button 1)
    3. Go make some coffee and eat a sandwich
    4. Tab over to Loops
    5. Maschine 2 > Exports

    Your file will be in there. Load it like any other loop

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod
    edited August 30

    Ah gotcha, that makes sense and is super cool. So if I export the audio how can I load it back into a sampler within M+? I know I can access my user folder but doesn’t it put the exports in a different folder that I can’t easily access the from the HW?

    Yes... But here's where poor file management kicks in again, you don't get to choose where it goes.

    1. If you export as Sound it goes into a sub-folder inside the Exports folder of the user lib.
    2. If you export as Master it uses no sub-folder, so it's the root of the Exports folder.

    Why this difference? IDK Seems rather arbitrary to me and choosing where things should go would be much better but I digress...

    For option #1 it ends up in the Exports folder, in a sub-folder with the name of the Project so you can load it via Browser -> Loops -> Maschine 2 -> Exports -> Name-of-Project (the last 2 lvls are sub-banks)

    For option #2 it's the same but without the project name sub-folder/bank.

    Also... I just noticed the Export options are rather limited on M+ so I guess you can add that to the list. Apparently, you can't choose to export just one Pad/Sound, if you select Sound it exports all of them and takes forever... like 1 minute for 4 bar loop lol... while on the desktop app there are checkmarks for each Sound. So, to export just one Pad you would need to solo it and select Master as the Source , that works but honestly, Resampling seems way easier and practical, unless you're trying to build a custom lib to use later in other projects.

    I guess what I’d really like is just the ability to freeze tracks which essentially is just bouncing the track to audio and disabling the plugins in one button.

    Kind of... freeze implies there's an option to un-freeze while bouncing is basically an automated way to export and import audio, very similar but not quite the same. I'm not sure if disabling plugs makes that much difference in M+ to be honest..

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 600 Saw

    @D-One wrote:

    I'm not sure if disabling plugs makes that much difference in M+ to be honest..

    That heavily depends on the kind and number of plugins… several instances of Raum for example do have an impact on the CPU load. Some Groups from Expansions are using so many FX plugins that having such a Group loaded already uses 40% CPU without playing anything. Resampling a pattern from such a Group to a single Pad frees up a lot of resources.

    Would be interesting to test whether disabling (bypassing) all the FX has a similar effect.

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod
    edited August 31

    Yeah. No doubt that precessing takes resources but your last paragraph is what I am saying. Im sure bypassing makes some difference but how much is the important factor because if it's just say 5% then it's meaningless in most cases. I've tested this before but honestly don't remember the results.

    Unless it's an ultra smart freeze that is capable of resampling under the hood, save the sound+midi+chain, completely unload it but load it back again if needed (un-freeze) - Since this can be done manually theres no reason it couldn't be an automated feature but I never heard of such advanced freezing before and I doubt Maschine would be 1st to do it.

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 600 Saw
    edited September 1

    Haha! Yeah, after posting I realized that it was probably what you meant.

    Regarding freeze with unload: Cubase does a very good job offering different options on what should be included in the freeze. The respective plugins are then deactivated not just bypassed.

    Anyway, I’m curious how much bypassing effects on the M+ affects the CPU load. Gotta try that and take notes.

  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 219 Saw

    Reaper can freeze like that, no problem.

    Freezing is way too big of a new feature set for Maschine at this point, just autosample a new instrument or render to new loop, not ideal in all circumstances, especially considering the file organisation on plus, but it is what it is.

    We should just hope for maintenance releases at best, and you never know, maybe the developers can sneak in a small new feature here and there without Soundwide noticing, I was going to mention the idea that there would be a pro subscription ala Traktor, but how can they add Izotope plugins to a groovebox with no PDC, that would be scarily hilarious that nobody considered it.

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 600 Saw

    @D-One FYI, before…

    …and after bypassing all 39 FX in the Sounds and Group…


    idle CPU load went from 42% down to 27%.

    So, bypassing does have an impact on CPU load, especially if we’re talking about lots of FX.

  • D-One
    D-One PortugalModerator Posts: 796 mod
    edited September 5

    I'd reckon Reaper would have such a function since it's the king of features. I agree with your overall sentiment, best not to keep expectations too high.

    Ideally, iZotope could do versions of their stuff specifically focused/designed for low latency, personally, i'd prefer this approach since I don't believe PDC will come to MAS within the next couple of years. If they're doing that for Traktor already they could do it for MAS too I guess.

    Interesting... So across 39 FX it lowered the usage by 15%; 15 ÷ 39 = 0.3% per plug, I thought that difference was uber tiny, so only worth it for freezing a whole Group (? or many Pads) but I also ran a quick test with all (24) internal FX after a Sampler then it went from 37% to 2%, that's quite significant altho in an unrealistic scenario.

  • tribepop
    tribepop Missouri, USAMember Posts: 105 Tri

    Yeah the freeze/unfreeze thing has worked in Ableton for years, that’s where I originally discovered the concept. When you unfreeze it, instead of using the bounced audio it just activates the plug-in and uses that instead. I’m hoping with updates like the AutoSampler, NI is coming up with “workarounds” to some of the limitations of the SW/HW (e.g. using sample-based instruments as opposed to VSTs).

    I’d love to see more technical investigations done to see how Maschine handles things from a processing standpoint. I remember reading that Maschine is still single-threaded which is a pretty significant limitation (I’ll verify this when I get to my PC).

    There’s also this issue that I’ve noticed a lot in both the SW and standalone version where you get clicks and stutters that don’t correspond to high CPU load but seem to be dependent on a certain plug-in or number of samples you use. Like I’ve had projects with twice as much CPU load with no clicks and then ones with one or two plugins with half the load and I get clicks. So it seems like there’s factors other than just strictly cpu load that significantly affect your playback experience in Maschine. I’ve also noticed that I tend to get fewer clicks or whatever once the project has played through a couple of times almost like everything has finally been loaded into memory or something. In the software implementation, they may be doing “lazy-loading” or just-in-time compilation in order to save on resources and that has some weird side effects or something. I’m not bad-mouthing the software or anything, if there is limitations, I just wanna know what they are so I can work around them.

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 600 Saw

    IME Loops totally kill the CPU on the M+. Add about 4 or 5 Loops to a group and there will be pops and clicks when playing Pads of other sounds even when the Loops are not running. It’s totally weird.

    The Electric Love Kit (I think from the Ignition Code Expansion) is a perfect example for this: Load that Group into a new Project and just hit Pad 1 (Kick) while stopped. There are clicks. Then erase the 3 Pads which contain Loops and all of a sudden: No more clicks!

  • tribepop
    tribepop Missouri, USAMember Posts: 105 Tri

    Oh wow, that’s interesting. I would have thought the opposite. I thought the sampler was more of a resource heavy device because of all of the features and different audio chunks getting triggered, as opposed to the audio device that just loads the loop into ram for playback or something. I’ve been trying to convert everything to loops when I’m done so maybe that’s the problem. Let me do some experimenting and I’ll get back to you.

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