To Mac users who can accurately compare to Windows

I thought this would be a good forum to ask this question since Kontakt Instruments load so slowly and consume so many resources (in Windows anyway) especially in Komplete Kontrol compared to most other vst's

I am wondering if Mac users feel their Kontakt libraries load quickly and run without consuming high resources?

I have a dual booting Win11 Workstation with pretty good resources that used to be an unsupported Win10 machine. I can boot into Win11 or Linux Zorin OS. I really was hoping to bail on Microsoft like so many consumers and companies are now doing. I have been trying to switch music stuff to Linux every few months and have a lot of Kontakt libraries like many of us. It is really hard to get get Kontakt libraries installed let alone working in Linux. My controllers all work in Linux, audio interface was plug n play, it runs native Studio One and Bitwig daw's and etc..many things work using Wine/Yarbridge. BTW I use this workstation almost exclusively for making music. I have Chromebooks that work just fine for most anything else for me.

So that is why I ask the above question because I am now thinking it might be time to try a Mac Mini or something but I sure don't want to do that if that will just present a new set of problems..It's hard to get real and accurate info about Apple stuff. Like how people are running 300 tracks and stuff on a Mac mini…I wonder how many of those tracks are Instrument Tracks running Kontakt

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JesterMgee

Would really be helpful to post some actual statistics and details on what hardware/CPU/Ram/SSD your laptop tuns, if you have done all the suggested efficiency tweaks to make sure it is running at full power and not power saving mode.

If you wish to compare Apples to Oranges (Windows) then we don't need to know anything about how you plan to ditch Windows for Linux at all.

What is better to know is a test example of what you are loading in your DAW specifically on tracks, which Kontakt instruments, what the overall memory usage is and what is a measurable unit for "quickly loading" and "high resources"?

I will be pretty straight forward, yes, macOS will typically feel much snappier and with less headaches 'generally' because the hardware and software are designed together to offer this performance out the box with little knowledge… at a price.

A Windows laptop tho, if you select the right one and have a little knowledge on how to setup and configure things can work just as well and offer more flexibility if you also like to game, tho for best performance you typically need things like dedicated audio interfaces as Windows audio is just not as solid as macOS core audio which is a win for macOS in most cases.

macOS still allows users to selectively update when they are ready where Windows will almost always force it at some point unless you know how to disable that so you can hold off and not mess up compatibility doe to "an unexpected update" as it is usually initiated by the user.

I use both, I personally find for mobile applications especially, macbook is just better in almost every way than my Windows laptop (except for internal storage which is always pittiful). Battery is better, performance is just better, boots and runs faster. I still use my Windows laptop as a primary laptop for my mobile DJ setup just because it is now an older laptop and does that one job just fine and has actual user serviceable hardware (So I can cram in a 4TB HDD) which is one of my biggest arguments for a Windows laptop but always have a macbook as a backup and even my macbook is now 7 years old and still going strong, rarely has it ever actually been powered off or had the battery die where my Windows laptop is about the same age and the battery is almost completely dead… but can be replaced.

For reference I have an Asus N550J 16GB DDR3 laptop running Win10 and a MBP 2019. It was initially slow due to a mechanical drive but works just fine with an upgraded SSD.

Personally generally I just much prefer Windows as it is overall less restricting with things and more forgiving with compatibility and older software plus it generally will do everything where both mac and Linux can struggle in some areas but I use what works and make it bend to my will, like Windows I seek tools to remove all the AI junk rather than moan about it, it is possible to just remove and disable all of that and use Windows as a simple local operating system like we use to in XP/7 days, I still don't have any of my machines logged into an online account and none have Cortana etc. Open source tools like Winhance or slimmed down ISO installs can help to really taylour an install.

Others may have a different experience and usually one will suggest what platform they are familiar with.

nobadmojo

Hi and thx for the response

I was just looking for 'in general' type info. There is so much hype about the Apple Silicone chips. I was mostly wondering if folks are having issues when using Mac especially for music production. I was assuming that it would be more stable and faster being a closed system and faster and more efficient with these M chips..

I don't have a laptop. I do music from a Dell Workstation. Some kind of i7 with 32 ram and a 1TB ssd me c drive, running at 3.4 Ghz. It doesn't give me problems per se other than slowing down when I run Komplete Kontrol stuff. I use this machine almost solely for making music. I;ve removed everything Microsoft from this machine that I could.

I mostly have just had it with all the Microsoft unethical shenanigans (lots of people have) and all the fiddling I have to do with it. Linux is just so much better in so many ways , but not for music. and now with NI close to bankruptcy I sometimes think of just bailing on NI stuff completely and switching to Linux. I can run my UJam stuff on Linux for example and their stuff doesn't suck. I think I should just evaluate if it is possible to replace my NI stuff that I really need with stuff that will work w. Linux. Since I have a dual boot rig set up it is very easy for me to say how much better Linux is in general

Jojo123

You need to be more specific than 300 tracks. What you need to do is work out a more defined work model that no one can possibly know unless you give more specifics.

A good start would be to do what Jester described and his post is pretty solid.

Work out what variables are important to you, such as what resources are needed for the software instruments you do use. Are they particularly heavy on CPU etc. How do you set out your projects and set up your mixer… in music production variables are probably the most important thing to consider when you're trying to work out an ideal system for yourself.

For sure Im with you on M$ shennanigans as to where its heading, and you'll get the naysayers on this board defending it to the bitter end, in complete denial but Ive NEVER seen so many disgruntled with the privacy nightmare and over reach its heading into.

FTR I use Linux for internet stuff, I have an old XP and Windows 7 PC for old legacy offline stuff which I really appreciate before M$ completely lost the plot with their nonsense. I use my Macs and Logic for music. They are solely used for music and are increasingly kept offline. I'll keep repeating —- its a race to the bottom between Mac and Windows tho windows is winning that dubious endeavour as far as spying on their users go. There is NO way I'll ever go down the cloud OS route and other forced nightmares.

As far as performance on the music front goes, I only know Mac, and its been pretty solid for what I do. As a K14 UCE owner and Ive used NI heavy hitters such as Pharlight and Straylight my experience has been pretty good, tho a couple of those presets made my 2019 iMac peak a core but other than a few things like that pretty good. A few crashes but Zero kernal panics. My M4 Mac Studio hasn't broken a sweat with what Ive given it to do. Its probably overkill for my needs but I like headroom and I hate stuff running hot. Its almost a year since I got that and becasue of other things coming up its been a somewhat slow start and I feel like I havnt really stretched its legs yet.

Theres always going to be glitches here and there no matter what system you choose. Some of those are not the fault of the OS / platform, but the 3rd party software you're using and visa versa. If you have a look on the forum here, you will see ample representation of issues for both mac and windows.

Finally Id say if you can find enough of a good reason after weighing up your pros and cons, by all means go Linux. I would if I could, but taking all things into account its too late for me to change. All Ive known is Logic.

mykejb

Can't really comment on the difference between Mac/Windows on very large projects, but Apple do have a 14 day returns policy and Amazon have 30. Maybe that would be long enough to do some testing to see if one would be suitable? Personally I find the Mac pretty snappy and I have a Mac mini M4 Pro.

DunedinDragon

I think any of them (Windows, Apple, Linux) could be configured appropriately to handle large projects depending on how efficient the software you run is and how well you're able to tune the computer and the software. The software is almost always the biggest factor which tends to favor Windows and Linux because they're more adaptable to modifying the way things get processed as far as low level stuff. But there's plenty of painful problems with any of them if you choose to use less than efficient DAWs, plugins and interfaces.

In my case I choose Windows alongside Ableton Live because they both provide the widest range of tuning factors to keep my system working efficiently. I don't have any projects with 3000 tracks, but I do have some fairly complex cinematic and symphonic projects that can get pretty large. But my tracks are often a mixture of different vendor plugins, not all of which are NKS compatible and are sometimes a LOT more efficient. Something that's much easier to manage in Windows than on an Apple.

nobadmojo

All good input thanks.

For me, I think I will just ride out my current rig and address this again next year unless Microsoft exposes me more or breaks more things or my workstation just craps out. I am glad I converted an unsupported Win10 machine because at least I have no tpm chip and I get the Win11 security updates. Everytime I look at Linux for music things get closer to being doable. If things break I;ll just buy a Mac Mini or something. If I wasn't into making music I would have been on a Linux system a few years ago and banished Windows from my kingdom. My music stuff all works ok I think, but could certainly be better. Studio One and Bitwig both fly in Linux compared to windows on the same workstation machine.

Now is not a great time to buy a computer with storage and Ram being so expensive. I could never replace what I am doing with music in Linux at this point, and even if I was able to get NI stuff running in Linux, by the time it goes through Wine and Wine staging and Yarbridge and etc I bet all the speed jumps will be lost and things would just bog down and present me with more problems anyway. At present the way to get Kontakt/KompleteKontrol to work in Linux is absolutely astoundingly bizarre and convoluted..and not worth the effort…This is unfortunate.

I think NI and the other vst makers are being short sighted to ride it into the sunset along w. Microsoft…Apple sure seems to have some shenanigans as well. The world certainly runs more on Linux than Apple or Windows these days anyway IMO.

Thx for the help

PK The DJ

So this is just another Linux thread disguised as a question about Macs. 🤐

Vocalpoint

"The world certainly runs more on Linux than Apple or Windows these days anyway IMO"

Not the part where people actually get paid to do all the great work that they do.

JesterMgee

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/258813#Comment_258813

Seems you buy more into the overhype from people than anything.

Linux is still WAY below either Windows or Mac in terms of "general usage" and while it is always going to be much better at being "your system" in terms of adjusting everything to how you want, it also requires you to do those adjustments and invest time in things a bit more which most professionals simply do not wish to waste time on.

As I mentioned, you can disable all the "shenanigans" in Windows if you invest the same time you would into setting up and making a Linux environment work (actually it takes way less to disable all telemetrics). Mac is a bit harder on that front as the OS is much more closed down and secure but at the end of the day you pick which tools will serve you best for the applications you have even if that means you use multiple tools.

Linux, while capable and awesome in its own right, is utilised in a wide range of applications for specific tasks because it can simply be tailored to a certain task and made to work efficiently for THAT task. Mac and Windows are "general operating systems" that are designed to do most things an average Joe needs out of the box. Linux needs you to setup and install/configure all those things or download an environment with most of the things pre-configured that you need but you will spend some initial time getting things to work and if not farmiliar, learning how to drive a command prompt.

The funny thing is I see people moan about Windows and it's shadiness on platforms like Facebook or using a browser like Chrome…. or even a chromebook which I am sure you know by now that Google is the King of data collection? I'm not really sure in most cases some many people know what they are actually worried about, just following the herd and bashing the company because it's the thing to do.

nobadmojo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/258823#Comment_258823

I was hoping this would not turn personal. No one likes to be told how to think especially when the person launching the personal affront doesnt know the context.. I was thinking in terms way beyond consumer pc's when I said what I did about Linux market share, Android is Linux based as one example. You might agree that Android phones are a good chunk of the mobile phone market. Microsoft used to try to put Windows in little devices..that never worked so well. Chromebooks are Linux based. Linux can run on virtually anything. Lots of huge systems also run on Linux. I can easily say that Windows still dominates the consumer PC biz by a large margin. Way larger market share than Apple but I would think that is changing now.. Microsoft doesnt give a rip about the consumer market and consumers other than on new pc license sales and spying on them.. Linux in the retail pc market share department dwarfs both of them . That's unfortunate because it does most things far better than Windows, doesn't get nearly as much malware/viruses/etc and really doesn't spy on you at crazy levels. every one can disagree,..fine with me..but at least have practical comparative experiences with Linux or I wouldn't comment. I have zero experiences with Apple products so do not suggest I know anything much about them. ..

I do agree with you that people can be sheeplike

I am aware of what Android/Chrome/Chromebooks do. By shenanigans, I was talking about more than just the spying ..I could cite some examples of what Windows does but why bother..I find the things that they do to be very highly unethical..just my opinion.

I think I should put this thread out of its misery other than my thanks to the person who suggested I take advantage of the Amazon liberal return policy. ha. I;m gonna wait until the m5 Mac mini comes out and see how the used m4 market reacts to that. My workstation served me well for plenty long enough, was super cheap, and it's time for some newer tech anyway..Since Linux for music isn't really doable with nothing indicating that will be changing anytime soon, and I;ve had it with Microsoft after many decades. I;m sure everything will run much faster with something like a m4 Mac mini. My main DAW supports efficiency cores I see..several do not. I;ve done enough research..I;ll keep the workstation maintained just in case.

diatribe over, peace out

JesterMgee

Nothing personal, just echoes the same thing many people seem to be popping in and saying now because of a few stories doing the rounds and as mentioned, if you are up to speed you can litigate much of the privacy concerns and completely remove things like copilot and the need for a windows account to just use it as you need to. I get that many want Linux to be supported but it's just not there yet for this kind of thing, I mean even gaming is still behind for Linux but we may see that change a lot when the Steam Machine makes traction…. unless current events just kill it off due to shortages and too higher pricing.

nobadmojo

I;ve edited my last post. I;ve done all those things to my windows machine..there is no co pilot on it..no one drive, no tpm chip, eliminated all the kludge that I could and etc..I;m done with Microsoft just as soon as I can be. I realize many people still like Windows and that's quite fine w. me. These days I want my OS to be kinda invisible and not get in my way.

Vocalpoint

"These days I want my OS to be kinda invisible and not get in my way"

Respectfully - IF the OS is getting in your way - you are not focusing on the right things when it comes to music making (which I assume - is what you do if posting here).

Been using Windows specifically for DAWs since 2002 - cannot recall any moment when the OS gets "in the way".

nobadmojo

lol…..hahaha

DunedinDragon

Sometimes I think this all comes down to being part of a "different" club other than what's prominent.

I'm with VP on this in that I can't think of a single incident where Windows got in the way of me accomplishing a task, regardless of the task I was doing. I've only had problems with being hacked once but that had nothing to do with the operating system and everything to do with social media.

I'm not even saying there is no value in Linux. But to my eye researching for the right versions and configuration needed in a Linux box in order to simply run a program I'm familiar with that has been very useful to me is exactly what I'd call 'NOT being invisible and getting in the way' of my productivity.

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