Komplete Kontrol - the unanswered questions

OK, so obviously the November Community update Q&A is now closed, which means unfortunately, not for the first time, all the questions about the future of Komplete Kontrol will remain unanswered, so I'm opening a new thread. We have seen significant developments for the Kontrol keyboard firmware and DAW integration, as well as for Maschine, but why does Komplete Kontrol, the centre of the whole NKS ecosystem, keep getting ignored? It is high time KK3 gets the attention it sorely needs and as I suggested in the Q&A thread, at the very least this should start with point 1, with a clear commitment to a roadmap to address the other points in the near future:

Restore what is missing - sub banks, properties editing and drag and drop (of samples) between the browser and plugins and DAW
Enhance the NKS editing functionality to bring it onto a similar level to the MIDI templates editor, such as support for user page insertion at any position in the mapping, and user page repositioning (drag and drop to rearrange param order would also be useful) .
Expansion of properties editing to also include bank/sub bank name fields and giving users the tools to apply templates to a batch of presets at once and generate previews etc to make KK a fuller NKS1 authoring solution would be very welcome
Finally, while it is great to see developers like UAAudio adding NKS support, given that most of their portfolio are FX, a lot of them mastering solutions, it really does draw attention to the rather large Elephant in the room that NI have been studiously ignoring since incomplete FX support was added many years ago now. i.e that FX support is so incomplete it is virtually useless - as a bare minimum we need a dedicated effect version of KK (so it can be used as an insert or on the master buss), plus full support for FX automation and FX chain saving. It was ridiculous that FX support was ever added in such a half assed way and we are well past the time to address this.

Tagging @Simon_NI @Chris_NI @Matthew_NI @timrae_NI

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timrae_NI

As mentioned in the other threads, the sub bank issue has already been addressed. It should be released to beta in the coming months so please keep an eye out.

Afaik there are no concrete plans to announce for any significant feature additions in KK, which is probably why no comment was made there. I know the product team are aware there's a strong desire in the community for more to be done in KK and I would also love to see more resources invested tbh, but unfortunately in the current environment putting more into one area inevitably requires taking something out of another area.

Kymeia

I do understand that putting resources into one thing requires taking it from another, but everything has had that attention except Komplete Kontrol - Traktor has had major updates and a new controller, Maschine has had major updates, Kontakt is being continuously updated - it is high time KK had some resources put into it. There is such a thing as prioritisation, NI needs to rethink where its priorities lie.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete/this-is-nks/

NKS technology powers the deep connection between your sounds and your hardware.

The 'hub' of that connection is Komplete Kontrol - and yet it is the weakest link in the entire chain.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-kontrol/?srsltid=AfmBOooJZhQCMt9ewVkTVafOSUd_0Exel-aij6D6vwwpJ9PHz1ji9zm6

NKS now also extends to loops and samples. You can play everything with a built-in sampler, drag loops and one-shots into your DAW timeline, or drop them into sample-using instruments like BATTERY, TRK-01, and FLESH.

This has not been possible since KK3 was released and yet it is still promoted as a major selling point

Works with hundreds of instruments and effects

Except it still doesn't actually work properly with effects - without an effect version at best it can only be a live controller for fx, but you can’t even record fx automation so you have to record straight to audio which means in practice it’s only useful for jamming. Not being able to place a KK hosted effect in an insert or send, or automate that, makes it useless for mixing and mastering effects, despite recent support from UAD who largely make those types of effects (as do Plugin Alliance and iZotope).

All the community is asking for really is to get Komplete Kontrol to a position where it can really do what it is meant to do. It has so much potential - don’t squander that NI.

DunedinDragon

I can only add a different perspective on this because I think there are multiple types of users for this product.

For myself, I'm not a deep, comprehensive user of keyboards so I rarely use or even pay much attention to the features many of the more grounded and dedicated keyboard players do. I would like to get more proficient and make more use of the advanced features such as templates for example, but in my world I don't find a whole lot of use for them. At the same time the vast majority of my projects depend heavily on KK, but I use the keyboard equally across various libraries from NI as well as other VI sources and my MK3 works equally well across all of them.

Could the keyboard mappings be better across other vendors products such as Spitfire Audio or Soundpaint for example . Absolutely, but I'm fine without them and it doesn't really affect my productivity that much.

The question is, how much of NI's market is made up of folks like me because that will be the driver of whether more advanced features will be funded for MK3 development. I'm sure NI knows such things but it would be counter-productive to release it publicly most likely.

I of course wouldn't be adverse to such things because I would probably use them as time goes on, but in my mind that's the key limiting factor as to when and what will be developed for the platform. Judging from where NI has targetted recent development it seems like they're trying to appeal more to the folks doing live dance style shows than the traditional live/studio musicians as are most of their competitors. I assume that's because that's where the real market actions is right now, especially in Europe.

JesterMgee

I will honestly be happy at this point to just see sub banks fixed which seems should be the case with the next release so if that is all working I offer my sincere gratitude to Tim and the team for finally taking the time to look into that. I've been so focused on having that fixed and hearing about it weekly from users myself that I haven't really given any more thought into anything more.

I'd personally like to see a return of the browser to the more simplified single window layout with presets listed on the side again like it is in KK V2 and with better formatted text so presets aren't listed in a small box with almost all the names cut short.

Editing features are all great to have but that is stuff I work around and I doubt any enhancements would make me implement V3 over V2 for what I do, it only applies to a small number of users so bigger picture, things around the filtering of results would be highly welcomed first. A long standing request from many is better use of the tagging system such as the ability to select exclusion tags (NOT rule) so you can filter out a certain type of sound rather than just narrow down on a type. Messing around in Omnisphere this is the kind of tagging flexibility i'd love to see:

An FX module again like how Spectrasonics listened to their users and released their FX module would be great, however it still begs the question would it also be limited to having no host automation because that is what makes effects mostly useless for KK, great browsing and use for Maschine tho. That would have to be solved and that would be difficult given it makes it modular, I am guessing maybe only the first 1024 parameters would be able to be automated in a DAW maybe because i'd hate to have to enable host automation for the controls I want to record, that is the main reason I started using KK in the first place was so I did not have to remap parameters for a plugin like UVI or Omnisphere all the time.

Vagus

To give you an idea of where I'm at - My Roli Piano arrived this week (six months late), to add to my Seaboard block.

The day one S88 MK3, I'm likely to sell if NI continue to ignore KK. I can make do with previews and mappings via the software and a 3rd party controller, and I won't need to spend my time making NKS packs, because I will change my workflow by just designing my own software.

I could even build something with more functionality than KK currently offers - and the things @Kymeia is asking for and more, inside 12 months. This stuff isn't rocket science - it just takes allocation of resources at a similar rate to other products.

But KK hasn't, doesn't, and won't get the same attention. I'm pretty confident in that prediction, because I have years of experience. There will be platitudes, thanks, appreciation, and a requests for patience. These same platitudes, thanks, apprecaition and requests for patience happen every 6-12 months. I know the pattern - I've lived it.

I absolutely get tech debt is a thing and developer resources are valuable, especially at NI, but the point of KK3 was to get past that with new software to support new hardware. Not to undermine and ignore the community that has effectively built unofficial 3rd party support in the face of (what was, but less so now) a lack of official 3rd party partnerships for years.

Threads are getting closed without response, questions and requests are being ignored, or brushed aside. That doesn't float my boat. And if anyone at NI wants to check my account, you'll find hundreds of NKS products. My investment is perhaps higher than NI's right now.

I really do appreciate some of the efforts people like @timrae_NI and @Matthew_NI have made to engage, but they are outliers. Simon is not here to change things for us (that's not his job, and he has other priorities), and @Chris_NI might pop in occasionally - please see the above message about platitudes, thanks, appreciation and requests for patience. We've heard it all before.

I used to think that @JesterMgee was quite hard on NI, but he's put of up with it for years longer than I have. He's a good guy that wants the best possible product. I'm not confident NI and Jester have the same goal.

It's been two years since KK3's release. My time limit is end of December 2025, and then I'm out, because I can do better with less developers and a smaller budget than NI is currently doing.

I'm sure my check-out date means little to NI, and I don't need any special treatment. I don't need people to ask me to stay, or keep doing anything. I just need NI to hold up their end of the bargain. You know, the one that Kymeia rightly says is advertized on the website. I want NI to deliver on the promise of NKS, not in Kontakt or Direct Connection, but in KK. I don't think that's going to happen.

I say that with confidence, because the level of support and resources NI is allocating KK is awful. I couldn't care less about what else the company is investing money and resources into. I've waited long enough.

JesterMgee

I used to think that @JesterMgee was quite hard on NI, but he's put of up with it for years longer than I have. He's a good guy that wants the best possible product. I'm not confident NI and Jester have the same goal.

Lol, nothing you have read is close to a hard press from me, I choose words carefully as I have been on both the giving and receiving side of product development stuff like this.

It's just a fact that asking nicely gets you only so far, especially around addressing an issue. What gets results is when you rally others to put their voice to it and be persistent. Numbers make a difference and you only have to look at anything that happens in the news, loud voices are heard the best. Honestly it took 3 years but had I just given up then likely nothing would have been done at all since seems they were not even aware of the problem (which is frustrating in itself), it was only once people joined a "stacks on" after Tim took some offence to my abrasive demeanor that it was actually investigated and finally confirmed, just icing that proves a hard word is sometimes needed. Lets not forget I have been asking nicely for the most part for 3 years and I also don't simply come to complain, I usually answer a question or 2 and offer others assistance so I kind of feel NI owe me a little time to at least hear me out or take my feedback with a pinch of seriousness.

I don't use KK on a personal level much anymore mostly as I don't do much in production. It was always a hobby and side quest for me, once I passed 30 the dreams I had as a 16yo becoming a famous producer or the next "Prodigy" were already faded, so much of what I push for is voiced and backed by hundreds of other users that I hear from directly with Sub banks being one of the most bought up issues, the drastic change in the layout of the browser a close second.

There are loads of things I would love to see on a personal level but that all takes a back seat for more important things that need to be sorted out and IMHO, the change in UI and browsing is a mistake and a step backwards from how it was and I can almost 100% guarantee not a single past user of KK V2 would disagree with me on that. Sure it is usable and can get things done, but not as quickly and efficient as it was.

Kymeia

My Roli Piano

Funny mine is coming soon too - I seem to be a batch number behind you - also to add to my own Seaboard Block (and a Lightpad). Seemed like the closest I could get to an Osmose given my limited desk space (and cost of course)

Vagus

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248319#Comment_248319

Wish I'd gotten a lightpad before they stopped doing them (and had more desk space).

My daughter loves the Roli Piano for learning, and it's pretty fun to play with IMO - a bit more efficient with some techniques if you're not super skilled at Seaboard, like me.

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248320#Comment_248320

Yeah I wish I'd got a second Seaboard Block before they stoped making them, then changed the design - not sure if the 2 versions work well together? (I think the connectors might but the surface seems different)

How is the Piano action?

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248311#Comment_248311

Sub banks are the definite immediate priority but I think it is also almost as important to get back drag and drop - otherwise they might as well remove sample import completely because it is useless if all it can do is open in that pitiful mini sampler or audio player. It was useful when I could drag samples into Form, or a granular synth like Audodamage Quanta. Restoring the side browser would help immensely as removing drag and drop was probably a side effect of removing the side browser as there was no longer any practicable way to drag into a plugin with modal windows.

For me effect support is also a priority though - effect support as it stands is pretty pointless musically, an effect version and effect automation seem essential to me and should have been 'no brainers' when effect support was first added. It was incompressible to me that it was ever seen as OK to release it in such an incomplete state. Being able to save chains of effects would also be a nice bonus.

As a NKS builder I would love to see NKS editing improved and have pointed out ways that could happen but I can be more patient about that as there are other tools we have been using to get around these limitations to an extent.

Vagus

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248322#Comment_248322

The actions is good, Takes some getting used to, but more control than seaboard between chords, which was the main reason for buying - retain some MPE, but with a bit more control.

timrae_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248315#Comment_248315

@Vagus
The subbanks fix should be out to beta by next month, I'm not 100% sure on the release timeline as there's another small accessibility related fix that would be going out at the same time. AFAIK there are no other major improvements to KK in the pipeline that would be out this year.

I totally agree that FX are quite unusable in KK at the moment, this is not a simple fix but I will do what I can to advocate to get this addressed in 2026. In the meantime enjoy the Roli!

Vagus

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248338#Comment_248338

Thanks again for your response Tim. KK SW is the only beta I've not been accepted to, believe it or not.

timrae_NI

The KK SW beta is together with the Kontrol S series beta. Afaict you are already in that community and have previously downloaded betas.

Vagus

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/248370#Comment_248370

Well that's an interesting one - maybe my perception over fact -I've always percieved that to be hardware/software for the keybaord., I'll take that one on the chin.

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