MIDI 2.0 Issues. Any thoughts?

OK Folks,

here's a question to spark off some thoughts for you.

This is for anyone using the Kontrol S3 series controllers, but it might apply to other versions too…

If anyone's encountered the interesting issue as to what happens when you turn on MIDI 2.0 specification within the firmware of your Kontrol S3 series controller, then launch your DAW such as Logic, all of a sudden, the midi functions from the hardware connection service and the controller service within the DAW just stop working, and in particular, if you're using the accessibility helper, you get nowhere other than sit doing nothing…

Has anyone else observed similar?

I tested this, considering I'm using Logic Pro 11.2.2 and enabled MIDI 2.0 specification within Logic's preferences. So, I quit logic knowing I'm about to make a firmware change on the kontrol s61 mk3 with the latest firmware installed, latest editions of Komplete Kontrol, Hardware Connection Service and Accessibility helper installed, switched over to MIDI 2.0 specification and restarted the controller, launched Logic Pro X, to find it stone dead, would not speak functions, would not navigate, nothing.

My only way around this was to reverse process and bring the controller back to MIDI 1.0 spec and reset the controller status, etc in Logic.

My question is this. If MIDI 2.0 is still in it's early phases, why have this as a feature if it fails within a DAW?

My other question is, Is the fix pointing to a Native Instruments issue or an issue with Apple Logic?

I'm not using any other DAW here other than Maschine 3.3.1, so I don't have any other DAW's like ProTools / Cubase to test with, Cubase is not an accessible DAW.

Any thoughts or problems you've encountered are most welcome here.

lew

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Vocalpoint

"My question is this. If MIDI 2.0 is still in it's early phases, why have this as a feature if it fails within a DAW?"

My understanding is that the hardware "standards" for MIDI 2.0 were ratified a while ago - so including it in a device as soon as possible will ensure it is available if/when the software/DAW world catches up in the future.

As far as something like Logic goes - in all my research - the general consensus is that it's MIDI 2.0 implementation is not ready for primetime and Apple needs to work out the kinks. When that will be is unknown - but it is on them

Despite all the chatter and the fact the MIDI 2.0 "arrived" (by the book) a couple years back - this is still going to take years to become a designated standard within each DAW out there.

If you want a functional workflow - don't bother with MIDI 2.0 right now - on pretty much any DAW - is what I am hearing.

blindaudiodev

hi @Vocalpoint

Great answer there and I had a feeling that well may be the issue. If manufacturers are encouraged by the MIDI standards specification to implement MIDI 2.0 as an included specification, then it would make sense for these functions to be added.

It doesn't surprise me at all regarding Apple and probably a few other DAW developers, but in fairness to them, it's probably harder for them as adding MIDI 2.0 specifications and functions within a pre-existing MIDI standard means further coding, not only that, but modifying particular elements of a DAW to work.

I think one of the other issues we face quite a bit is how DAW's work with particular protocols, like Mackie control, which is now an outdated standard, yes it's usable, but it's outdated and hasn't received any changes for more modern hardware, then we have other protocols for cubase / protools, etc. If we had a more unified protocol that could be used by all DAW's, a protocol that could be updated easily to support newer hardware and communication methods, then DAWs and hardware surfaces could achieve so much more and make the lives of operators much easier in the long run.

Thank you so much for reminding me of this. You can probably tell I've been away from some of this for a while lol.

lew

Monochrome

My question is this. If MIDI 2.0 is still in it's early phases, why have this as a feature if it fails within a DAW?

To answer this, read what Matthew once said in 2023 when the MK3 keyboards came out:

[…] we're not doing anything special with MIDI 2.0 yet, just that the device can run in MIDI 2.0 mode to support the features as they come.
What we're waiting to see (and trying to promote) is more widespread (or more robust) MIDI 2.0 adoption in Windows and macOS, in DAWs and plug-ins as well as hardware. With that comes reasons for us to implement the features MIDI 2.0 facilitates.

(Source: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/97003#Comment_97003)

MIDI 2.0 will eventually become the standard and NI wants to be ready in advance. Not all DAWs, plug-ins and operating systems support it yet, so it's best to stick to MIDI 1.0 mode for now.

blindaudiodev

Hi @Monochrome

cheers for the detail on this, yep, perhaps I should have done a bit more digging lol, but either way, at least we know more.

One of the reasons I posted this little question was due to a user and contact of mine who I ended up advising a fix for, because he had also fell foul of the midi 2.0 issue but got in a bit of a state over it. so I walked him through how to resolve, it just led to me posting this to see if others encountered similar issues and your thoughts, ideas, desires regarding resolutions, etc.

lew

mykejb

If you switch between MIDI 1 and MIDI 2 on a Mac you need to go into the Audio MIDI configuration utility with the keyboard disconnected, open the MIDI Studio window then delete the entry for the S-series keyboard. There's an article here that describes doing that when you switch from 2→1, but I think 1→2 needs the same.

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/20213420674333-How-to-Switch-a-Kontrol-S-Series-MK3-Keyboard-to-MIDI-1-0

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