Maschine 3 visual lag. Why is this happening?

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased the Maschine MK3 hardware and the Maschine 3 software and noticed that there is a huge visual lag of the cursor while recording, which messes up all visual cues while recording. This is without any instruments loaded, hardware connected directly to the PC, CPU usage @1%, Memory @ 29% and GPU @ 1% in the task manager. And it doesn't seem to matter which controller is used to record. This doesn't seem to happen in Maschine 2 software. I am on Windows 10, with Maschine MK3, KK MK2 and Arturia Minilab connected as controllers.

Can anyone help me identify what might be the issue here? Any help would be appreciated @D-One Here's a small video of the issue -

https://youtu.be/bTo-h6Et1HA?si=2SQeYojsz3ApkH7G

Thank you!

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Blotj

You're not alone. I am finding lag to be a huge issue. I notice I get this the more VSTs I open and shut. Excite Audio ones are especially bad for this. Again, I'm not hitting any max cpu, memory or any other performance hits that are obvious.
My instinct is this is something in the graphics code somewhere. The projects that struggle are nothing like as dense as the sort of thing I ran on M2. Though I seldom crash since the last update, performance does seem to have taken a big hit.

6xes

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/46486/maschine-3-visual-lag-why-is-this-happening

out of curiousity…. are you running your mk3 through a hub and without power??…

edit: sorry i just noticed you are using a s88 keyboard…. which would naturally require the power adapter,

..you may need to look into seeing if your firmware is up to date on that keyboard

6xes

additionally there is a series of issues of laggyness being noted when searching google… which points to the keyboard being the culprit as opposed to the maschine software

6xes

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/22529/s88-mk3-causing-large-lag-spikes-in-daw-cubase-nuendo

D-One

That does not look like spikes, it looks rather stable lag / low frame-rate.

I am on MacOS so things are different, my framerate was never great, about 40 FPS, but definitely a lot better than yours. Theres many GUI-related issues since V3…

I'd report it directly to NI, include your full computer specs, if you have a dedicated GPU include that too and what driver version you have. Make sure those drivers related to graphics and/or your chipset are up to date. If you have a Hi DPI screen (4k), try different scaling options on Windows just to see if it makes a difference to report to support.

Does it also happen is Maschine is Hosted in a DAW via the Plugin?

crystaldrone

Hey thanks for the reply people..

@Blotj Damn that sucks. Even I feel it has something to do with graphics. Actually, both Maschine and Komplete Kontrol have some sort of graphic issues here. While Maschine lags visually, opening KK as a VST in Cubase makes Cubase crash with some guix64 error.

@6xes I have tried different controllers with the Maschine software and the result is the same. So feels like it's got more to do with the software than keyboards and firmware. Moreover, I have everything up-to-date - the firmware on all my controllers, the drivers of my graphic card and Maschine software.

@D-One I also think it has something to do with graphics. Everything you suggest is up-to-date. My monitors are not 4K. They are only Full HD but are running on a refresh rate and frame rate of 120. I even tested the framerate using this online utility called testufo and the results were great. Smooth at 120FPS.

Do you think this is something for NI to fix, or do we need a graphic card to run Maschine and KK? Don't remember reading it as system requirement while purchasing. Like I said above, while Maschine has this lag, KK makes Cubase crash with a GUI error. The lag is still present when Maschine is loaded as a VST. Should I submit separate tickets for both?

D-One

@D-One I also think it has something to do with graphics. Everything you suggest is up-to-date. My monitors are not 4K. They are only Full HD but are running on a refresh rate and frame rate of 120. I even tested the framerate using this online utility called testUFO and the results were great. Smooth at 120FPS. Do you think this is something for NI to fix, or do we need a graphic card to run Maschine and KK? Don't remember reading it as system requirement while purchasing. Like I said above, while Maschine has this lag, KK makes Cubase crash with a GUI error. The lag is still present when Maschine is loaded as a VST. Should I submit separate tickets for both?

No, you dont need a dedicated graphics card to use NI products, integrated graphics is fine on modern computers. I said that because GPU drivers update very often but integrated GPUS get updates too, so do motherboards, BIOS, chipset drivers etc… I'd double check all that.

It could be related to having a high refresh rate monitor, try setting it at 60Hz and see if it makes a difference, just so you have more info to give support. Ultimately if all is good on your end it's NI that has to fix it. One ticket is enought.

6xes

@6xes I have tried different controllers with the Maschine software and the result is the same. So feels like it's got more to do with the software than keyboards and firmware. Moreover, I have everything up-to-date - the firmware on all my controllers, the drivers of my graphic card and Maschine software.

its a good thing you tested with other controllers which will narrow down the problem….

a couple of obvious things to check… in the meantime

check that your samplerate's and bitrate's are all matching…. ie on both maschine & windows and every other software …once you've confirmed thats not the issue…

..untick all your midi outputs in maschine… and test again.. as there may be a midi feedback loops…

if those 2 things are not resolving the issue….

then you will likely need to look at the resplendance application…. i have seen a video from native instruments going over the resplendance application…

hopefully someone will link to it… if those 2 simple checks have been carried out & eliminated from the equation.

be sure to let us know the issue is resolved once its sorted

goodluck!

CakeAlexS

Firstly I would move to Windows 11 if possible. Regardless make sure you have run Windows update to the latest.

What graphics card/motherboard do you have? Update to the latest graphic card drivers (appears you've done that) and BIOS.

Finally I got a similar issue recently, and managed to resolve it by disabling my internal graphics card in device manager, even though I wasn't using it. Of course if you are only using your motherboards display that won't be relevant.

Another performance tip - disable your motherboard C states. You can do this in the BIOS or via a Windows utility. Google for details.

Also check out download and use the latencymon utility. Google again.

Cheers...

Blotj

The thing I note, is that these lag events seldom affect the audio output, rather they cause the UI to become unresponsive. For example, when I hit them, I can no longer hit stop on the M3 UI, to give it time to catch up with itself. But on the M+ controller I can press stop there and interrupt things. M2 didn't have these issues.
I do however span a laptop onto another larger monitor, I wonder if that may cause this to trigger.
@crystaldrone, do you do likewise?

Blotj

Ok just hit this again. This time I added an Excite LL Width module to one of my sounds. The UI has frozen.
But I can play/stop fine on the controller. M3, does not update.

Blotj

Should also mention that this lock up is only constrained to M3. If I bounce to desktop, I am able to operate any other program normally while the locked M3 is still running.

crystaldrone

Hey thanks for all the suggestions. I have submitted a ticket.. Will get back with updates. Hopefully with the good kind.

@CakeAlexS I think for system requirements all software makers in the world should just write - Latest of everything. Thats what they would prefer right? Then why do they come up with this minimum sys requirements nonsense. Or atleast mention three - minimum requirements, ideal requirements and going nuclear 😅

Minimum requirements basically means 'the software will run while the system will be on the verge of exploding'.. so ya you can buy our software.

@Blotj M3 doesn't freeze here.. just has this visual lag. The kind of issue you are talking about - I have experienced such freezes with buggy plugins in the past irrespective of the DAW. Not sure if that's the case in your case or is it really M3. Totally possible that it's M3. Anyways your issue seems to be a slightly different. Best to submit a ticket.

Vocalpoint

"I think for system requirements all software makers in the world should just write - Latest of everything. Thats what they would prefer right?"

This would violate the general rule of lowest common denominator.

Specifying the "latest" of everything would shut out half the user base. Vendors design their stuff to run with a basic layout that would allow for the bulk of the base to get on with the software and be able to use it. And no - minimum requirements does not mean the system will be on the verge of exploding.

You need to give us a better idea of your hardware in use. "Visual lag" has many causes - from too high a resolution to using "Gaming" drivers to using gamer software (for enhanced frame rates etc) in a DAW situation.

As a baseline - I can safety report that I have no graphics card whatsoever (Intel onboard graphics) and saw no visual lag in the Maschine 2 software (when I had it installed).

I do not have v3 installed at the moment.

I am guessing there is something else holding you back here.

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