How to simply assign a damper pedal on S88 MK3 ??

Lutz Multimedia LLC · May 30

Hi

My sustain pedal works fine on my S88 MKIII but I plugged a second midi pedal (On Stage or something generic… on and off signal) to the other input on the back and cannot for the life of me figure out how to permanently assign it to be a damper pedal for simple piano work.

I have scoured the forums and even chat GBT said its impossible (which is absurd). How can I simply set this up? Any helkp is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! - Josh

JesterMgee · June 10

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/229964#Comment_229964

You need to read the manuals or do research. No, not all piano libraries/instruments support all the typical piano pedals since I assume to make it sound realistic would require samples to be recorded for it and maybe for sub $100 piano libraries this is just not worth the time. Maybe it is a limitation in Kontakt, I don't use Kontakt much myself.

I think first you need to confirm if the selected piano actually supports what you want, not assume, then second confirm (using a DAW or MIDI Monitor) that your pedal is sending the correct command. Maybe you need to enable the half pedalling option in software (remembering that some functions will work with a dual position pedal rather than separate pedals)

Software representation is not always a 1:1 for the real deal. Not everyone needs damp/Sostenuto pedals in whatever they are producing which is why for specifics like this you need to make sure you select the right plugin for the task and understand if the hardware can also do it.

For example, a quick search finds a reply from @Jeremy_NI in regards to damper pedal for Noire:

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/13114#Comment_13114

So not all libraries can provide support for everything. this may be the difference between a piano library that costs $60 and one that costs $300

Hi - Yes I am talking about the SOFT pedal aka the middle pedal of a piano. The sustain works fine as is.

Isn't the middle pedal a note/chord sustain pedal? I could be wrong as I am not a pianist and CFB to google it but I thought it was (from L to R) soft / note / sustain from my limited and uneducated knowledge?

nico5 · June 1

What do you want the second pedal to control? I think "damper pedal" is just another word for the sustain pedal. Do you maybe mean “soft” pedal?

I’d probably use one of the Assign 1 and Assign 2 ports on the back of the keyboard, and then configure the required settings as outlined in the NI support article linked below (I found it via regular web search).

A soft pedal works similarly to a sustain pedal, except that sustain uses MIDI CC 64 and soft typically uses MIDI CC 67 (unless the target module or software is configured differently).

Since it’s a simple switch pedal, use that as the pedal type setting. A further simple web search revealed that the MIDI CC for soft pedal is typically 67, so that’s the controller number to choose in the settings. The manual for your hardware or software should list the MIDI CC numbers for different pedals. The MIDI channel should be the same as the MIDI channel used for the sustain pedal (most likely channel 1). And then ensure that the pedal up and pedal down are set to 0 (zero) and 127 respectively.

Resources:

Found all of these via simple web searches (not AI).

Lutz Multimedia LLC · June 3

Hi - Yes I am talking about the SOFT pedal aka the middle pedal of a piano. The sustain works fine as is.

I have already read that same article 100 times actually.

I held SHFT + BROWSER and changed the ASIGN 1 pedal to be in switch mode but it just turns the second pedal I have into another inverted sustain pedal. Where do I assign it to be a soft pedal? The article doesn't say. Chat gbt said I need to reassign the midi channel but it kept sending me to Komplete Kontrol, even the NI ai chat bot told me to go there and click on the midi icon and asign the pedal to be a soft pedal but there is nowhere to do that in Komplete Kontrol I can see. Been at this for three solid days. Please help!

Thanks in advance ❤️

Lutz Multimedia LLC · June 6

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

JesterMgee · June 8

Well it will depend on the plugin if it is supported as a control.

All you should need to do in the MIDI configurator for Pedal 2 is setup the input settings exactly the same as for your sustain pedal but assign the CC number based on the MIDI CC you want to control. You may need to consult the plugin manual for what is supported but if you are wanting a generic "Soft Pedal" this is CC 67 so this is the CC you would assign to the Pedal 2 input

https://nickfever.com/music/midi-cc-list

Lutz Multimedia LLC · June 9

Thanks for the helpful links and your time, I do appreciate it, genuinely.

Unfortunately, even with the midi assigned to 67, the pianos in Kontakt (Noire, Grandeur, Giant, Gentleman, Maverik, Una corda, etc) seemingly do NOT respond to this soft pedal which seems absurd. I would think any pianist using a piano would expect this to just work for every day playing. All the pieces I write and play require this basic piano function, as I would assume every other piano player in the world would too. I am baffled why I still can't get this basic function to just work.

What am I missing? Do Native Instrument Kontakt pianos really have no soft function? I don't own any others to test the controller atm. Please help!

Just to clarify:

I have an On Stage branded KSP100 sustain pedal plugged into the Assign 1 jack.

The settings are:

Mode - Switch

Invert - Off

Type - Control Change

Midi Channel - 1

Number - 67 (for soft function)

Mode - Gate

Value - Off 0

Value On - 127

nico5 · June 9

JesterMgee · June 10

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/229964#Comment_229964

You need to read the manuals or do research. No, not all piano libraries/instruments support all the typical piano pedals since I assume to make it sound realistic would require samples to be recorded for it and maybe for sub $100 piano libraries this is just not worth the time. Maybe it is a limitation in Kontakt, I don't use Kontakt much myself.

I think first you need to confirm if the selected piano actually supports what you want, not assume, then second confirm (using a DAW or MIDI Monitor) that your pedal is sending the correct command. Maybe you need to enable the half pedalling option in software (remembering that some functions will work with a dual position pedal rather than separate pedals)

Software representation is not always a 1:1 for the real deal. Not everyone needs damp/Sostenuto pedals in whatever they are producing which is why for specifics like this you need to make sure you select the right plugin for the task and understand if the hardware can also do it.

For example, a quick search finds a reply from @Jeremy_NI in regards to damper pedal for Noire:

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/13114#Comment_13114

So not all libraries can provide support for everything. this may be the difference between a piano library that costs $60 and one that costs $300

Hi - Yes I am talking about the SOFT pedal aka the middle pedal of a piano. The sustain works fine as is.

Isn't the middle pedal a note/chord sustain pedal? I could be wrong as I am not a pianist and CFB to google it but I thought it was (from L to R) soft / note / sustain from my limited and uneducated knowledge?

Lutz Multimedia LLC · June 10

Yea it's confusing cause the far left is called "soft" even though the middle pedal actually makes the piano sound softer by physically raising a curtain of felt to mute the hammers, called "sostenuto pedal." On my Yamaha U1 upright in my home, I use the middle pedal as much as the sustain for all my compositions when writing and scoring. It is an integral part of my writing so I need to figure out how to assign this middle sostenuto pedal pedal to all piano's (that offer this feature) in Kontakt 8. I have done a TON of research and haven't been able to figure it out still. Some places say they offer it, some say no. That's why I'm posting here, to try to get a definitive answer.

I am a primarily a guitarist so I'm still new to this software stuff myself. I just want the middle pedal to give me the practice mute sound I'm used to on a an acoustic piano. I think it's supposed to work when you assign the pedal to Number 66 and the settings to 0 to 63 = Off, 64 to 127 = On but unfortunatley, not a single piano in Kontakt 8 responds to this assignment. Please help!

Thanks for the help.

JesterMgee · June 11

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/230081#Comment_230081

Ha, I have no clue what the pedals are either, I know the sustain pedal, it is all I use. In some doco I watched they ran over the pedals which clicked as to what that Sostano one was actually for, i'm one that is more interested in how it all actually works than what it's used for.

Yeah maybe it is a limitation with kontakt, I really don't know. I know some basic piano instruments have no options for this either, some do however, one I can recommend highly which sounds great and has all the bells and whistles and the company is responsive to questions is VI Labs:

They run in UVI Workstation/Falcon and the pianos are brilliant sounding (tho cost may be a factor) but they have all the expected features, including ability to not just assign the foot pedals but also set the CC value for the pedals and I have developed NKS support for all their pianos.

Another that supports 3 pedals is Steinberg The Grand which again I have NKS Compatibility available. It too sounds great but I feel you have much more option with the VI labs option than the Steinberg version.

I have dozens of other options but since I am not really a piano player I can't really speak too much on how they really perform so take this as just a couple of suggestions based on both my personal opinion and my own users feedback over the years.

How to simply assign a damper pedal on S88 MK3 ??

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Resources:

NI Support article:

MIDI CC Numbers:

Piano Pedals:

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