Vadim Zavalishin ( reaktor main developer ) now works at u-he
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It would be fair to sell Reaktor to people who are ready to develop it... I've been missing a number of features in Reaktor for a long time now, and I'm less and less willing to use it in its current form... Now I decided for myself to finish 4 projects started in Reaktor, and then I will look at the situation, if Reaktor will develop, I will continue with it, if not, I will consider alternatives that have the features I need....
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For example, what features are missing?
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The most important missing feature is delay compensation.
Which doesn't allow you to use advanced algorithms without third-party plugins.The rest is minor, but it would be great if it was possible to scale the GUI and import ensembles into full-fledged VSTs.
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I miss list processing .
The way plugdata and max msp can handle huge amounts of lists is a godsend .
I am now building a complete editor for the roland integra hadling sysex data , don't even think about doing that stuff in reaktor
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Although many of the things said could also be correct, they underline a very shortsighted view by the investors (and one of the best way to ensure an inevitable failure).
Yes… a good painter can decide that the money is in making people’s portraits to hang over the fireplace and just focus on those… until people will discover there are plenty of other good painters able to make good portraits…
The artists that will last (and which paintings will be valued millions) are those that bring something to the table and even dare to not simply provide the people with what they expect but make them discover something new.
Or…if we wanna stay in the music ballpark… if you want to have a couple of hits, just build tracks that will give to the masses exactly what they expect and what they have already heard 1000 times. But in 2 years no one will even remember your name…
The artists which work will still be talked of after 20, 30 years are others…
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I have tried using Puredata and SuperCollider to do Morse Code. Indeed, text types are more convenient for me to solve problems, while Reaktor, a purely numeric processing method, is really troublesome.😂
Of course, it's not that it can't be implemented, it's just that it's really, really cumbersome.
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Hmm to dive further into your metaphor...
...back in the olden days, artists used to make their own paints, a company might do well in those times selling tools and materials for paint making.
Then over time it became more practical due changes in technology, and just more fashionable, to just buy ready made paint.
At that point a company that still invests in developing paint making tools that nobody wants will lose out to a company that pushes all their resources into selling ready made paint.
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That’s a good metaphor. And a true one.
But only if you are a guy who wants ready made paintings.
At that point… now that we are so “lucky” to have AI… useless to even sell virtual instruments… a “musician” could just ask “Hey AI… make a song with these instruments in it”… The ready made musical version of your paintings…
I’m still a guy who thinks that ART is ART. Yes… we can enjoy songs made in 24 seconds by an AI… but I will still support REAL artists with my money ☺️
Btw: ready made paintings are sold for 10 bucks. An artist painting is still sold for A LOT of money… probably there’s a reason for this (and I hope that the reason is that human beings are still able to use their brains). So… as you can see… ready made paintings companies still are not winning, luckily. Unless by winning you mean “making some money in the short terms”. Which was exactly my point 😏
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Good point yes.
And unfortunately,new ways of thinking,creativity,discoveries often happens away from the majority,only a minority will be interested in that and not much money is available until this very same thing becomes popular,universal but by that time the creators are often forgotten.
That is why i talked about values,vision earlier…maybe you make less money but i think it's really worth it to bring something meaningful,authentic and different to society,well we aren't all geniuses of course but it still worth it.
Sometimes i feel the changes happening are really down to a few unknown individuals and then later…the rest follows.
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I think you misunderstood my post. I was talking about paints not paintings. Back in the Renaissance, artists made their own paints. Most artists now buy readymade paint. They still make the paintings themselves.
Reaktor users are like these historic artists, they first make the tool (using Reaktor), then make the music using that tool. Musicians are creative, so the idea of software that lets you make your own tools without having to learn programming is attractive, but over the years, most have realised that the time and effort required to work that way is not an efficient way for them to use their time. It's much quicker to audition some sample packs, and grab something close, then manipulate it in a sampler to tune it up.
A good musician/producer can make good music with a soft synth, or a sample pack, or a guitar, or whatever.
It's always been like this. Listening to classic electronica, it's amazing how many tracks have a 'hook' synth sound, that's really just one of the presets. It was a more efficient use of time to just borrow/buy/rent a new synth and choose from the presets than to spend weeks/months learning how to program it then create patches from scratch for each song.
Even Eurorack seems to be going this way. Folk wanting to avoid learning patching, instead buying ever more complex modules that have curated patches built-in to their circuitry and software. Most questions of 'how do I get this sound' on Modwiggler will be answered by multiple posts suggesting to buy some specific module that makes a sound like that. It's what most musicians want - a simple short cut to roughly the right sound ASAP.
Reaktor is not what these folk want, it is the opposite of what they want, and they are the target market, because they are in a massive majority.
If this wasn't true, then Reaktor would be enormously popular because every chart topping smash on the hit parade would be made using Reaktor or something like it. Where are all those hits that were made with oddball synths and effects from the User Library?
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Yes, I definitely misunderstood ☺️
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We are talking about the majority though,it's always been like that i guess,today probably worse with so many things trying to get our attention and making us feel we don't have any time left or are about to loose time,miss out on something and the cult of instant gratification.So many are fantasizing about being a great,popular artist and willing to take the shortest path possible.
Companies are often selling that idea also…"anyone can make music now!" "use that tool and sound like a pro in 2 minutes!"
Personally all the bands i am attracted to create their own tools,have a peculiar way of doing things,many of them have actually touched Reaktor at some point. Max Msp is certainly succesful and far from being user friendly or easy to use. But yes…it is not the majority,this type of music is niche but still have a strong fan base i think.
These tools and bands have also changed the landscapes i think in terms of sound design,style of music etc. but you certainly won't see them in music charts.
Let's not forget about movies and video games too…where creativity has a bit more freedom.
I was seeing a documentary about Dune the other day,they were super creative with how they designed the sounds,music and the result is spectacular.
I guess my point is these tools have an important place still.
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Let’s also not forget one thing: the same tools that many don’t use because they feel more comfortable with “premade” things are the ones that get used by the few creatives that give us those “premade” things. Opening the access to creation tools to the masses is just an ulterior step, not the reason why those tools have been created.
Take Kontakt as an example: how many really use it as a very powerful sampler and not only to load the “commercial” libraries?
Nonetheless, those same libraries have been made by the “few creatives” by using Kontakt.
If NI would think “ok… the data say people use just the libraries, so let’s remove Kontakt’s abilities”… we would not even have the libraries.
In the paints analogy: yes, maybe we don’t see the base products used to make a color in the shops… but they are still there… otherwise we would not have the paints. Giving access to those base products to the masses is just an ulterior step. One shop (NI) could always propose both versions: the finished product and the way to realize it. Exactly what they were doing before. And probably exactly the reason why people thought “NI is ahead of the game compared to some others”
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I don't disagree with any of that… however :)
NI has always been about selling tools and trying to be the big player. When they started, Reator made sense in that context. There were not many (any?) good VSTis in those days. So something that could immediately give you a whole library of soft synths was compelling. And at a time when the market was small and new, many things just didn't exists, so building your own was the only way - so an environment enabling that without prior programming knowledge was a killer app, Reaktor helped NI become a major player.
Now, the market is saturated, there are more amazing synths, samplers and complete platforms available than anyone could ever need. Cpu and memory on systems is orders of magnitude larger, so comprehensive sample packs that used to be impractical are now easily handled on the puniest of laptops.
Where Reaktor often used to be the only game in town, it is now that weird old app that can do everything, but for everything it can do, there is some more specialised app that can do it better, or a sample pack that is an easier and quicker way to get a polished sounding result.
So the USP of Reaktor that used to apply to everyone, is mostly gone, the only part that remains only applies to a small niche within a niche. Those few sound designers, and the folk that make the sample packs. That's a very small market that doesn't make sense to a company that is all about large market share and maximising profit margins.
NI tried to morph Reaktor into a content platform, but for that to work well, I think it needs way more streamlined, which needs investment, so maybe it's not practical. If they did push further down that route, every single change they made would be met with a barrage of angry complaints and reports of the sad death of Reaktor.
I think it's great that NI are still maintaining Reaktor. It's a shame that Vadim has moved on, but don't think he's been heavily involved in Reaktor maintenance for at least some years. And software is software, just because he designed core, doesn't mean others can't continue where he left off. There are other talented DSP engineers.
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I am, no surprise, more optimistic than most in this thread. Native Instruments have invested in the future of Reaktor through the M-Series update. This gives me confidence it's not going anywhere in any time frame that matters for most musicians. I treat it like a piece of quality hardware. One day it may fail and be unfixable. Until then, why wouldn't I use it? Does the music I made with it before that day suddenly become worthless? I have, as do most creatives in my experience, a collection of unfinished works vastly greater than those I consider completed. The reasons vary. Any work, even incomplete, was probably worth the time, if for nothing more than the learning experience.
I suspect Reaktor is a lot more successful than is imagined. Most people aren't concerned with which developers are working on it or if it's getting updated soon. They're making music, not posting on forums debating the effects of private equity investment. Probably most of them haven't noticed it hasn't had an update in a while, or how long there was between previous updates. When something works, why would they? Until I arrived here, I hadn't given it a thought. This isn't a DAW, or an OS, where new features are expected on a regular basis. Many people probably have never even opened the editor view of Reaktor. They use the synths—and maybe the effects version—and they find sounds they like and they are happy. And why shouldn't they be? This approach has worked for as long as recorded music has existed, and before. Most people who play physical instruments want to pick up an instrument and play. They don't want to build their own. No one faults them for this. No one says they aren't creative because they use pre-made tools.
I have this idea in the back of my head that I want to build things with Reaktor. I've bought some block packs from Toybox Audio and others for this purpose. And found that when it comes to it, I just want to get on with making music. Maybe when I retire from being a software developer I'll divert some of that time and energy into making my own synths and effects. Or not.
Something like Max is a different idea entirely. You can build synths and effects in Max, and people do. But what most people seem to build are things you can't get any other way, things that fill a need which is not satisfied by anything they can buy or download from a user library. I built a Max for Live device that receives midi from multiple tracks and combines it in a shared track, passes the combined midi through effects, then splits it up and sends the original midi, post-processing, back to the original channels. I made it because I wanted something I couldn't figure out how to do any other way. If I had found a device that did exactly this, I wouldn't have built mine. I'd rather have been making music.
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