Kontrol S61 MK3 Stuck in "Default MIDI Template"

LeXx Dynamic

Hello all,

My S61 MK3 just suddenly stopped working properly. I only bought it new a month ago and am running a Mac with the latest software. Just this weekend, the S61 stopped working right, I can't get it into plug-in mode and all it shows is "Default MIDI Template." How do I get it back into plug-in mode and usable?

Thanks.

IMG_0060.jpg

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/218542#Comment_218542

What you're telling me doesn't make any sense.

I know that this must all be extremely frustrating for you, but please notice that Matthew_NI is not part of the N.I. support team. He were part of the team that has made the Kontrol S MK3 keyboards and he is as close to an expert on all of this as you can get. So if Matthew_NI tries to assist then you are well advised to take whatever help he will offer. (Matthew_NI is no longer part of the keyboard team) , in the capacity of being a Komplete Kontrol connection expert he has moved on to the Kontakt team to help create Direct Connection in Kontakt)

Alternatively then of course you could try working with N.I. Komplete Kontrol Support

In case that you need guidance contacting support : Please read : how to get support !

Kymeia

Situations like this it’s scandalous that some companies attempt to gag the truth using NDAs. Users need full disclosure to make informed choices

Matthew_NI

Try this?

Potential reasons why

1. USB-C Connectivity Issue:

Problem:
Some computer chipsets made between 2020 and 2023 have a known USB-C error that can't be fixed. This can cause sporadic problems with USB-C peripherals like the Kontrol S MK3, including connection failures, freezing, or issues with firmware updates.

Solution:
If you experience these issues, try using a USB-C hub between your Kontrol S MK3 and your computer. This can help avoid the problem and ensure a stable connection. This is critically important during firmware updates, as data loss could cause broken firmware. Make sure the hub supports both power and data transfer.

2. USB Controller Issue:

Problem:
Even with a USB-C hub, you might occasionally see errors during firmware updates (error -2). This can happen if the USB Controller is overloaded, especially if other devices are connected and transferring data during the update.

Solution:
To fix this, power your keyboard using a wall charger, unplug any other USB devices from your computer, and then try the firmware update again.

LeXx Dynamic

What you're telling me doesn't make any sense.

This is not a chipset problem; it is a Native Instruments problem. I have three other midi controllers that I use in addition to various synthesizer, and all of them work fine. In fact, every device I plug into my computer works fine. Don't tell me this "can't be fixed." Instead, tell me, "Native Instruments is refusing to fix it." Additionally, there is nothing "sporadic" about this problem. It is a problem that suddenly popped up, and now it opens in this mode every single time. I'm already powering the Kontrol via a USB-C hub. I've tried connecting via the hub and directly and through a Mac laptop I have — and yet the problem still persists.

How exactly am I supposed to complete a firmware update when my computer doesn't even recognize the Kontrol in the first place? It's plugged in, I did a rescan and it still doesn't recognize the Kontrol. So, again, in light of this, how am I supposed to complete a firmware update?

I'm not "occasionally" seeing problems. The problem is persistent. What you're telling me about an overloaded USB controller is nonsense. Again, plugged the Kontrol into a laptop that had no other peripherals connected to it and was running nothing else, and I was having the same issue.

Could you instead provide me with actual solutions instead of what you're doing right now. This is a known issue, by the way. It's been a top of conversation on Reddit for two years, and yet it's obvious Native Instruments has done nothing to fix this.

Kymeia

Are you using Komplete Kontrol 3.4? When you open that does the keyboard show up in the controllers list? Does it stay in MIDI mode?

LeXx Dynamic

Hy Kymeia,

No, the keyboard is not showing up in the controllers list. My Mac isn't recognizing it at all.

I'm not at home right now and can't verify for sure which version I'm using, but I doubt that it's 3.4. I bought the Kontrol about a month ago and didn't run any firmware updates on it yet, so I'm guessing it's 3.3.2.

It is always in MIDI mode.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/218542#Comment_218542

What you're telling me doesn't make any sense.

I know that this must all be extremely frustrating for you, but please notice that Matthew_NI is not part of the N.I. support team. He were part of the team that has made the Kontrol S MK3 keyboards and he is as close to an expert on all of this as you can get. So if Matthew_NI tries to assist then you are well advised to take whatever help he will offer. (Matthew_NI is no longer part of the keyboard team) , in the capacity of being a Komplete Kontrol connection expert he has moved on to the Kontakt team to help create Direct Connection in Kontakt)

Alternatively then of course you could try working with N.I. Komplete Kontrol Support

In case that you need guidance contacting support : Please read : how to get support !

LeXx Dynamic

Oh, I thought we he was a part of the support team. I saw the "product team" tag and assumed that. This is my first time posting, and I had just signed up yesterday. So I didn't know how things worked.

I can try the path you recommended.

You're correct — it is frustrating. I've spend a great deal of money on NI products in the past year — Komplete 14 Ultimate, this keyboard, Maschine MK3. My entire VST workflow was premised on NI products, and things have suddenly stopped working. I tried to research this issue on my own for several hours before getting on here and contacting NI support, and I learned that NI has known about this problem for at least two years and has not sufficiently addressed it. I reviewed some of their service bulletins, and they were out of date and entirely unhelpful.

So, yes, my frustration probably is showing with respect to NI as a company.

Matthew_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/218542#Comment_218542

Based on your forum profile, I strongly suspect you have a machine that includes the chipset problem.

This is a problem that affects many USB-C peripherals, not just us. It affected me with products made by many companies, including audio interfaces and displays, before I moved to a non-affected chipset. Per various NDAs, I am not permitted to be specific about exactly which chipsets and model years are problematic, as affected companies aren't willing to countenance widespread recalls for sporadic issues affecting machines they no longer sell. Instead, I advise the workarounds because that's all we can do.

Of course, it may be the cause of your issue (in 99% of cases of your symptom, it is). But it may not be. I can't know that. I can only offer my advice.

Everything that I have said is true. I am sorry that you don't believe me.

Kymeia

Situations like this it’s scandalous that some companies attempt to gag the truth using NDAs. Users need full disclosure to make informed choices

Matthew_NI

Could you instead provide me with actual solutions instead of what you're doing right now. This is a known issue, by the way. It's been a top of conversation on Reddit for two years, and yet it's obvious Native Instruments has done nothing to fix this.

I am trying to do this.

I am well aware of the USB-C issues as they've affected us and other peripheral manufacturers.

Other things to ensure/try include:

• Making sure you've installed NI Hardware Connection Service, latest version, and that it's running (in Activity Monitor).
• Install the latest versions of Komplete Kontrol and Kontakt as well

And a question - are you in standalone app mode, or hosting K or KK in a DAW? And if so, which DAW?

PoorFellow

Well , for what it is worth then despite the problems with the USB-C connection on some computers then at least then N.I. is determined to iron out the problems and if you keep working with N.I. support then they should be able to help get the problem fixed. Just respond promptly to all support emails and correct all and any misunderstandings if any arise and respond even if just to tell that what was suggested did not work and N.I. support ought to help get the problem fixed.

Also I would like to add that to me it has appeared that sometimes when using the USB-C hub did not help then the cables used has been the problem. Also another thing to try is to use a USB-C to A adapter while also using an USB-C PSU.

I will throw in this Matthew_NI quote :

Matthew_NI,Product Team, 3:05 PM , 2024-02-19 ,

To be very clear, and to avoid any one opinion becoming misinformation, I'll re-state what has been said in various places:

As frustrating as this is to you, it is also to us.

This issue is specific to the USB-C implementation on certain computer models.

This issue is not specific to the peripherals themselves.

This issue causes the communication in the protocol to essentially break, thus data is dropped.

This manifests as various symptoms, depending on the peripheral. For Kontrol S MK3, the dropped data can interrupt a firmware update, or controller -> DAW and/or controller ->Plug-in sync.The issue can appear at random, frequently or infrequently.

Using a USB-C hub interrupts and bypasses the problematic communication specific to the chips used in the USB-C implementation of affected machines.

We can highlight and advise on workarounds, should a customer be affected.

We can, and have, reported this directly to the manufacturers of affected models. So have many other manufacturers of peripherals.

They can, and have, fixed it in newer models, but of course there exist affected models in the market that will forever be subject to the workaround.

We cannot do any more than this. I'm sorry that some of you choose to blame us. I recognize that it's deeply frustrating, but I cannot change the facts of the matter that I've outlined above.

LeXx Dynamic

Matthew, it's not about whether I believe you or not. Sir, I'm not calling you a liar. I understand you're knowledgeable. It's just that your suggestions are not consistent with what I've experienced.

I tried running through a hub; it didn't work. Literally every other peripheral works just fine. If everything else works fine but Kontrol doesn't, then it seems there's an issue with the NI code that hasn't been resolved. Kontrol worked just fine for several weeks until this weekend, so this problem is new. Again, that indicates to me that that this is a coding issue.

I can try powering the unit with an adapter; I don't have a problem with that. I can report back after I get the adapter. If it works, that's great. But if it doesn't, then I'm right back where I started — and what next?

Kymeia

tbh it’s beginning to sound more like a fault somewhere (keyboard or cable?)

LeXx Dynamic

Thanks, Matthew.

I'll take a look at NI Hardware Connection Service when I get home.

I have the latest versions of Kontakt and Komplete Kontrol.

I've tried both standalone and hosting.

I'm running the latest version of Logic.

I've tried three different USB cables.

One more thing I should note: when I ran USB-C from a hub to Kontrol, it made a low humming noise as soon as it powered on. However, when I ran the USB-C directly from my Mac into Kontrol, there was no humming noise. And I'm running USB-C to USB-C.

I could try using USB-A to USB-C. I'll do that when I get home.

Kymeia

I doubt that will work I’ve tried using USB A to C for the power input and it didn’t provide enough power

You could try adding a USB C power input though as well as the data connection

LeXx Dynamic

Kymeia, I'll try USB A to C just to cover my bases, but I understand what you're saying.

Sorry, what do you mean by adding a USB C power input through as well as the data connection? How is that connection set up?

Thanks.