Komplete Kontrol 3.40 and Novation LK29 MK4 hardware integration test
As a long time NI user I was excited about this release and hopeful that it would actually enhance my experience as I had written a simple Pads Custom 1 set of text actions: left, up, down, right and return. Easy to engage and importantly disengage for working in Live 12. I have MacOS Sonoma, MPB M1 Pro 32GB ram and Audient ID24.
According to my testing there is a lot to be desired since it is slow (latency) and you have to depend on the mouse for many actions. In my tests selecting the Plugin Slot only changes tab between Instrument and Effects in KK 3.4. That’s it. There is no way to choose your Plugin Instrument (Massive, Dune 3, whatever) without using the mouse. Once highlighted the menu for that plugin shows presets in the right column.
However the Select plugin preset will not work until you manually choose a preset in the list first with the mouse. Once that is done then you can traverse the presets. However on my system there is a 1-2 second delay between traversing presets. Strangely I get no sound preview without playing a key (ouch). When I traverse presets using my computer keyboard or my own custom setup on my LK I do get the preview as expected and latency is reduced when traversing presets.
Once you have a preset you can use the 8 knobs to change the first page of parameters. However, when you turn an encoder on the LK the LK Display does not show the parameter name. Just a CC number. To make matters worse in order to scroll through the parameter pages you must open up the parameter area in KK. That will show the page names and parameters. Then when you use the LK Parameter page pads to traverse the pages you will see the tabs change on KK and see the effects of the encoder visually on your monitor screen.
Getting out of this back to standard LK and LIVE usage you again must use the mouse in KK software to bring the Midi menu up and choose “return to default” which means your standard LIVE setups. All in all this is so bare bones it's hardly worth it.
I have previously owned the A25, S Series Mk1 and MKII controllers. Unfortunately the MKII controller key-bed became quite noisy even though I am a light action player. I have invested considerable time and money into NI ecosystem, and have also utilized Freelance Soundly NKS libraries to extend the usefulness of Omnisphere, Falcon, and other assorted 3rd party libraries.
Personally I find the whole setup a no go for NKS. In addition the Sub-Groups are gone for many Plugins so wading through many presets is a PITA unless you narrow the search at the top instrument or effects level by choosing assortment of filters offered. The Maschine is far better at choosing Plugins, Presets, etc. I can only assume the Kontrol Keyboard MK3 does a much better job however I have held off since I have read so many negative reviews of the implementation.
In all fairness I will add that if one uses your computer keyboard and mouse and you choose your plugin and preset, then when you open the parameter pages view in KK the ability to traverse pages and leverage the LK onboard encoders to interact with any page parameter you choose is a plus as you no longer bound by 2 rows of 8 encoders if you say used macros in live 12 as I do.
Comments
-
Tried an LK mk4 too, I wouldn't even call this integration - it's just standard MIDI CC mapping, and it presumes you have the factory custom templates installed to get it working too. Which I didn't!
Like you, I was expecting at the very least for the display to show parameter names, let alone for it to set up the pads and rotaries as required.
I really can't believe anyone felt this worthy of announcement… Unless the launchkey implementation is particularly poor. Don't like to moan, but come on!
3 -
I think pretty much all the integrations are one-way at the moment, ie they're built in mappings to save you having to map stuff yourself.
1 -
I am really not sure how to honor your statement. Except to say I developed, managed and QA'd complex medical systems for 25 years. So I would say I know little something regarding software development. Quite honestly I did expect a better experience with the news of this partnership. But as rev 1 of this effort we shall see how this develops.
1 -
from past experience, all I can say, don't hold your breath for anything groundbreaking…
2 -
If you don't mind my asking what Midi Controller do you recomment?
0 -
I use a KK MK2, just I wouldn’t suggest the features of what is offered by KK will improve much.
1 -
Yeah I'm hoping they add more, it'd be a win-win. I guess they want to balance adding support for other keyboards, but not kill sales of the S/A series by doing too much.
0 -
People need to be aware of this before spending money on the hardware though, as the announcement of 'integration' suggested to me that it was more than generic MIDI CC mapping that could be done already.
It's the fact that you have to change pot modes and pad modes yourself, so it's not even automatic setup as they claim - so, if you've not got the custom mode on your device you then have to go find it on the Novation app and overwrite one you're using.
I think It'd be better if they just approached this with mapped CC's out the box and published those as a standard KK control scheme for non-NI controllers, then worked with manufacturers to supply as part of the device standard/factory preset libraries.
That way it's a more defined standard and allows multiple device support on the same machine. I'm hoping all these device presets follow the same MIDI CC structure to allow for simultaneous/multiple controllers, but without checking each preset I don't know for sure. It would be really disappointing if they hadn't.
1 -
Couldn't agree more. Excellent idea of publishing the KK control scheme. That way we could configure to our likes as well as maybe named parameters rather than just CC's.
0 -
Works well in standalone Komplete Kontrol. Jumps parameters with non-endless rotary knobs in DAW (Oxygen Pro, LK49 MK3, Cubase, Bitwig, Logic, Reason, Samplitude Pro X, Luna all tested - so it doesn't seem to be DAW specific… Bitwig has flawless pickup with native devices/plug-ins and quick controls for knobs and faders on both of these controllers).
As a result, this is… … Impractical to use with those controllers - particularly with how much load time Komplete Kontrol imposes on you when you use it on lots of tracks.
LK MK4 would be fine. It has endless rotary knobs. So do some Akai controllers, IIRC. I think all of M-Audio's controllers are 270 degree encoders, thus far, so the UX is going to be sub-optimal if you use any of them.
I tested first in the standalone Komplete Kontrol app. My hopes were high, before loading my DAW.
Two obvious issues:
- Pads to switch Presets, etc. have like 1-2 second latency with the Launchkey 49 MK3 (on macOS, at least). The latency is so high, that they are practically unusable.
- The buttons to switch Presets, etc. on the Oxygen Pro 49 do not work. They simply do nothing at all when pressed.
I think if you have a controller with Endless Encoders, the integration is "good enough" since that will work well in your DAW of choice. Not sure if that's a good enough selling point for using Komplete Kontrol, though. There's a reason they had to implement Direct Integration with Kontakt for their own controllers. Too much RAM, CPU, Load Time imposed by it.
1 -
Named Parameters for … what?
Most instruments and plug-ins will change the names of the NKS mapped parameters unless they're basically the same kind of instrument or plug-in. There is no utility in that, unless you only use a specific instrument/plug-in and nothing else.
Honestly… This is a good gesture from them, and unworth complaining about because they didn't have to do it at all. Their A/M Series controllers are priced in the same bracket as a LaunchKey or Oxygen Pro.
I think a bigger issue with their stuff is the fact that Komplete Kontrol is even a thing. The fact that you have to deal with this heavy middleware for anything you want mapped is problematic and a significant detractor. I don't think I'd even use this even if the KK software implemented this flawlessly.
It makes sessions take forever to load, use far more RAM and CPU, etc.
I think this would have worked better if the NKS support were baked into the instruments themselves.
I value sample drag and drop from the browser to DAW over this, personally. But I can see why some people may be disappointed in the quality of the implementation delivered. I just don't think there is much ROOM for disappointment considering they could have simply not bothered and kept telling us to buy one of their controllers - as has been the status quo.
I also think this may be better - later on - when there are newer controllers developed with this in mind.
Maybe those controllers will have two buttons that allow you to switch between NKS and DAW, the way Arturia Controllers do with their software.
0 -
I think this is less of a good gesture, and much more about being a sales drive/PR Push for NI as it gets awareness of their products out to all users of the manufacturers listed. And I expect it will lead to NI software being part of the bundled software also.
The idea is great to bring in partners and have some form of integration, but from the LK Mk4 perspective I personally feel that it's been poorly implemented, of course that's from an existing users perspective who understands the underlying concepts and how much better it could've been.
The only positive factor I can think is that it will work well for those using KK standalone who haven't a clue how to setup MIDI devices and have a brand new off-the-shelf device.
i.e. say if you're a live performer wanting to offload hardware and this is your first foray into a laptop and controller type setup.
In regards to named parameters, it's very easy to update the displays on a device like the Launchkey with the parameter name from KK. It's very basic sysex data that takes very few lines of code, and they have the trigger events for all that as part of the S Series integrations already.
I guess the biggest problem is having the MIDI port available to send to.
1 -
This is an early version; a simple step one. The start of a longstanding partnership involving multiple brands, rather than the final / only thing that we'll do together.
This was alluded to in various other parts of the forum, but step one is uni-directional MIDI templates. Useful for many, and a step worth releasing along the way. It's better than nothing, of course, but it's not the ultimate goal.
A step two is something bi-directional, more akin to the NKS experience seen in the M and A series keyboards. That's more like what the folks posting above expect, I think. Parameter names on on device, values updating appropriately, better navigation, etc.
@Chris_NI laid this out explicitly here:
@Chris_NI described the initial feature release, and then also the deeper integration that's in the works. Perhaps you missed the announcement: if so, it's all there!
0 -
@Matthew_NI Based on a previous reply by yourself on the announcement thread, I thought this was Kontrol A and M series 'NKS1' style experience already:
But, of course, it turns out that it's not even that… yet. It's just basic Midi CC, and nothing like the A/M Series integration.
I appreciate that you have plans and theories on how things will evolve so your perspective is different, but from a customer perspective what's physically in front of us is what matters.
And this can lead to disappointment when being told there's a new hardware/software integration available, when in truth offers no additional integration than we had before. But, hey, actually, it may in future.
Not having a moan… or at least trying not to as I really appreciate your engagement here. But it is disappointing as i'm sure you can appreciate.
1 -
That's an unreasonable expectation, considering the KBs they are supporting have never been designed for NKS support… indeed, most of them (save for Novation) are class compliant devices and don't even use device-specific drivers.
Komplete Kontrol A/M and Maschine hardware utilize drivers for integration with Komplete Kontrol, Maschine and Kontakt.
To get that level of support, we need new hardware (with few exceptions…).
2
Categories
- All Categories
- 19 Welcome
- 1.5K Hangout
- 65 NI News
- 816 Tech Talks
- 4.2K Native Access
- 17K Komplete
- 2.1K Komplete General
- 4.4K Komplete Kontrol
- 5.9K Kontakt
- 1.6K Reaktor
- 389 Battery 4
- 866 Guitar Rig & FX
- 439 Massive X & Synths
- 1.3K Other Software & Hardware
- 5.9K Maschine
- 7.5K Traktor
- 7.5K Traktor Software & Hardware
- Check out everything you can do
- Create an account
- See member benefits
- Answer questions
- Ask the community
- See product news
- Connect with creators