Wrong Buffersize passed to VST3 Interface in Maschine 3.01

oldmacilli
oldmacilli Member Posts: 3 Newcomer
in Maschine

Hi folks,
seems I found a bug in Maschine SW. Reproducable with Maschine 2 and Maschine 3 Software. Also reproducable with WIN11 and MacOS 15.


It seems that VST3 Instruments with variable buffer-size always get Buffersize 128 as parameter when initialized.
This leads to Pops and Crackles in CPU Heavy Instruments and "far-lookahead" effects like De-Essers.

The screenshot below shows the combination of Maschine 3.01 with VEP7 (Vienna Ensemble Pro 7)

But I could also verify this wrong behaviour with a little self-written BlueCat VST.

Seems the problem is definitively in the Host-Slave initialisation of Maschine SW.

How can I reach out for support?

Neither the ChatBot gives me answers nor are my eMails forwarded.

Regards….😪

Wrong_Buffersize_Maschine3.png

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Answers

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,844 Expert

    I assume the reason is that Maschine does not offer PDC and cannot compensate for varying delays of different buffer sizes.

  • oldmacilli
    oldmacilli Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    As far as I know, Samplerate and Buffersize need to be passed over to the Plugin anyway.
    Calculations for compensation is a second step.

    Tested with another non-PDC VST host. (Blue Cat’s PatchWork).
    Buffersize is transmitted correctly eventhough no PDC is even tried.

    Correct BufferSize is essential for continous DataExchange.
    (see VST3 Developer Portal DataExchange)



  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,844 Expert

    @oldmacilli thanks for the explanation. My knowledge on this subject is rather superficial. I try to find out a way to report your findings properly.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,082 mod
    edited January 3

    So the buffer for maschine is fixed and if you load a chain or single vst that would need more buffer size the problem starts? But your picture of maschine prefs shows the stand alone setup so the buffer of the output of your interface, this is a different thing to maschine loaded as a vst!? But that doesn't rule out the problem with the vst so I will check with cubase on my system.

  • Sunborn
    Sunborn NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,140 mod

    On Windows, Maschine does not have a fixed buffer size.
    It takes the buffer size of the audio card you use.
    So, any changes has to be made through the audio card's settings.
    In fact (on Windows) it doesn't have any buffer setting option at all!

    εικόνα.png

    Maybe on Mac things are different, or maybe it is because the OP does not have any audio card but he is using Mac's default audio (which is probably doesn't have an interface, that's why we see buffer size setting in his case?). I only assume, since i'm on Windows.

    Now, Maschine as a plugin inside a DAW has no audio or midi options at all, it's a "slave" to DAW's options. At least in Cubase, but i assume in every DAW.

    Clipboard_01-04-2025_01.png

    So, if your Core Audio on Macbook Air has its own interface, any changes to buffer has to be done from there, preferably before you open Maschine or DAW or any audio application.

  • oldmacilli
    oldmacilli Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    Hi folks,

    my described issue affects only the stand-alone version of Maschine 3.
    I want to bring in some Vienna VEP hosted Instruments and FXs into my Maschine session, cause I like my fanless laptop and my fanless Maschine near my Mics.

    BTW.: When loading Maschine as VST in a DAW the DAW does propagate the audio parameters (samplerate and buffersize) correctly. Chain-loading VST-hosts is not my intention, as within a DAW an VST loaded VST-host always crashes due to inconsistent Thread-Pool management.

    @Sunborn

    You are right.
    All buffersize changes were done in the interface specific dialogs of the stand-alone Maschine 3.


    But..in the standalone version of maschine the buffersize changes arrive in the maschine program itself only but are not propagated to the hosted plugins. Also a save and reload does not help. Tested on both MacOS and Windows with an RME interface, Built-In Audio, with CoreAudio and ASIO drivers.



  • Sunborn
    Sunborn NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,140 mod
    edited January 5
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/202029#Comment_202029

    "in the standalone version of Maschine the buffer size changes arrive in the Maschine program itself only but are not propagated to the hosted plugins".

    Ok, now i have a full and clear picture of the case, for the first time, thanks!
    I will do some experiment on my Maschine, to investigate.

    One question (just to be clear):
    Is this image of yours confuses me. Is it from Vienna Ensemble Pro? I am not familiar with this app.

    εικόνα.png

    Then, what is the connection?
    Since you mentioned that you running Maschine stand alone then i assume Vienna is loaded as a plugin, right? But, as far as i know, Vienna is a DAW on it's own? So, i'm failing to see the connection here.
    Do you try to run 2 stand alone applications or does Vienna has a plugin version too?

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,844 Expert

    @oldmacilli wrote

    But..in the standalone version of maschine the buffersize changes arrive in the maschine program itself only but are not propagated to the hosted plugins.

    Which is exactly what I would expect on any host. I wouldn’t expect the audio interface buffer to have an impact on the individual buffers of all VSTs which are handled and provided internally by the host. The host is also responsible to compensate for all the buffer related delays (PDC) by adding individual negative offsets for each track during playback.

    For example in Cubase: CoreAudio Device Settings Buffer Size set to 256, while Oeksound Soothe 2 is reported with a latency of 2048 samples.

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