Why does Komplete Kontrol Plugin Scanning take so long ? SOLVED !
Comments
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Ok so here's what I've come up, if I try deselecting plugins while Komplete Kontrol is open v 3.3.4 it's a complete nightmare. It's going to rescan all of my plugins, there's no way around this. The only way I think I'd get around this is as jester said and I'd have to remove them or rename the folder etc.
NI needs to re visit this, it's a complete mess. A plugin scan should only look at the plugins that are selected, and do the job we're telling it to do
Certain plugins like Softube seem to take longer, probably an ilok issue idk, but that doesn't happen in my DAW ( studio one 7 , or cubase 13,14 ),
In KK v3.3.4 Softube plugins seem to hang up I have to force quit, restart and finish the scan = Mess, this is NOT how it should work. I'd like to get on their next beta team, as I have plenty of time to test this and add some input.
Another thing they need is a real plugin manager where you can select by Vendor instead of a 2005 style FL Studio list of a 1,000 plugins to go through. = just not practical.
I really think NI needs to dedicate at least one of their better developers, to work specifically on Komplete Kontrol fulltime and pay them extra for a few good months of OVERTIME pay to get this all sorted, and potentially get those still on 2.9.6 to finally join the party on 3x.
Hopefully this helps someone else
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I'm on KK 3.3.4 on a moderately recent PC and I have well over 1000 plugins but I only have about 172 listed in KK. The others are either in a different library system like Soundpaint, or configured in my quickload listing or retrieved directly through the File Manager. My initialization time is about 4 seconds, so clearly the initialization time is most affected by that. Once you load them they stay in recents so generally once I've used something I use rarely that's where I go to load them during the time I'll be needing them.
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I agree with most of what you wrote… NI has to work lot more on KK.
Native Instruments has to understand that, while a big part of its new customers seems to be (judging by many comments and questions i have seen in the forum) in complete ignorance about fundamental basics of audio, music, synths etc etc. so its easy to be manipulated and driven to buy simplistic (and rather expensive) things packed in dazzling wrappers, there is also a big part of former and new customers, who are hardcore professionals or well educated amateurs, who demands nothing less than perfection.
On the other hand, we have seen this ridiculously slow VST scanning on other developers too, personally i believe that Magix is the worst of all. While on some DAW like Cubase or Ableton, the scanning varying from rapid to "speed of light" fast! I don't think that it is so difficult to check how they do it and then use a similar code for KK.
Komplete Kontrol is unique, really an "one of a kind" application but it is far from been perfect. It's up to NI to evolve it to a "world class standard" or to leave it as a "just another application"…
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"You may be confusing the issue tho. When things are all scanned it SHOULD be fast and selected/non selected plugin will simply be checked to see if they exist, not interrogated for features and versions unless they changed since the last poll."
100% Agreed - however…
Considering some folks on these boards who have been dealing with non-stop scanning issues - in some cases like waiting 10 minutes or more - IF your theory was true and these users actually sat thru a 10 minute scan - logically assuming that after this painful scan - ALL plugins are now "officially" known to KK - why is the next launch of KK - is another ten minutes and not 5 secs?
And - as a test here this morning - I just added 100 plugins back in (re-selected them) and my scan took almost a minute. Removed them and I am back to 5 secs. I am resting on my own conclusions.
As long as I am not dealing with (or waiting for) anything that I am not ever going to use IN Komplete Kontrol - I am a happy camper.
VP
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I think the point is we shouldn’t have to deselect any plugins. The program should be implemented in a way that once a successful plugin scan is made, it doesn’t need to scan them again upon a restart. Or if you choose to deselect plugins, you shouldn’t then be forced to rescan all of the plugins to confirm the deselection.
I appreciate your input, so out of the 1,000 plugins you paid for, your using roughly above 10.8 % of the plugins you paid for to use in your creative mode.
This just strengthens my arguments against what we’re being forced to deal with here. This isn’t an ideal solution for us to have to limit our options all because they ( N.I. ) can’t seem to fix this issue.
I hope this helps1 -
I want to clarify that not all users are affected by this issue. Maybe you’re one of the lucky ones without the problem.Either way it is happening to others.
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"I think the point is we shouldn’t have to deselect any plugins. The program should be implemented in a way that once a successful plugin scan is made, it doesn’t need to scan them again upon a restart"
Bang on. But KK was not designed with that in mind. It's primary (and only) MO is to fire up "scanapp.exe" each and every single run whether you have installed nothing new or 100 new plugins. It is incapable of a working with a delta checkpoint or has any ability to know/remember/read or load a prior scan config.
Now I can see why NI wants to subject us to this pain - so they have their bases covered. They do not want to be blamed for KK missing ANY weird plugin you just introduced - so they scan everything, everytime whether you like it or not.
Deselection is the only saving grace I could find. I WAS one of the users about 18 months ago that had to sit there for 2 mins while this thing ground away doing whatever it was doing. But as soon as I built out the new DAW and took complete control of what KK was allowed to use and see - things changed dramatically.
Yes it is a complete pain to do - but as long as I maintain a 5 sec startup - that is good by me.
VP
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Found a really simple solution.
- Go to:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Native Instruments\Komplete Kontrol (or the equal folder on Mac) - Rename the file ScanPluginsApp3_x64 to ~ScanPluginsApp3_x64
(i used ~ but you can put any other compatible symbol in front, just don't change the actual name)
- Open Komplete (took me 3 seconds!).
- Whenever you add new plugins, set back the original name so Komplete Kontrol can scan them.
- You applause 😊
1 - Go to:
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Wow…with all those misrepresentations and inferences of what I said you're missing the boat if you're not working for one of the major news organizations. Nice spin though.
First I keep the ones I'm most likely to need in Kontakt in Native Access, but that's not the only reason why others aren't there. I have a ton of 8DIO, Spitfire, Soundpaint and other libraries all of which aren't NKS licensed but may be NKS compatible. That's not a question of having everything used for creative output within Kontakt or KK because that sort of stuff happens as it does for most people in the DAW where all my tools come together and I'm rarely slowed down there.
In terms of a full scan that's only happened to me when I update. It does a slightly more complicated scan of just a couple of items the first time I start it fresh after a reboot or coming out of a long sleep period that takes maybe 5 seconds rather than just 2, so I'd suggest you may have something not working correctly in terms of your setup. The way you personally work isn't the key factor for how everyone works so insisting your requirements are what's good for everyone is just naive. This very well might be a bug in NI's design, but it's not affecting me and a whole lot of other people. It's just as likely you've got something strange going on in the way you have things setup, but it doesn't appear you're too open to that possibility.
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I’m suggesting we shouldn’t need to deselect plugins. The program should just work correctly.
That’s been their go to option for ages for Maschine. It definitely fixes the scanning issue. ;)
We both know that’s not a fix to the situation. NI needs to seriously bite the bullet and either start paying more money to these developers to get these issues ironed out. Or add some talented developers to the team who are dedicated to Komplete Kontrol. Alone !I know there’s some who won’t comment simply because there’s more things wrong and they’d rather reserve a possible feature request than waste one on this one, but this really needs an actual fix too. That’s the game being played here, and it’s been happening for many years now.
I hope this helps someone out if they’re encountering this issue.
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Well I am on KK 2.9.6 for foreseeable so there is no fix for me.
But I am very happy with a 5 sec standalone scan time and the practically instant action when I drag KK into a Studio One session.
Cannot complain at all. And I really won’t be going back to the old days of 1200 plugins either. That is simply insane from a workflow angle.
VP
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Vocalpoint , I wish I was on 2.9.6 lol , but with the MK3 we can’t downgrade ;( or I would at this point.
I’m only hoping someone at NI just realizes this plugin’s potential and finally puts forth an actual effort to get it to be successful and what it should be.
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To reaffirm the topic in argument (because you are describing a completely different topic which is why I said I think you are confusing the topic), deselecting the plugins in the list of plugins within KK does not remove them from the scan, it simply removes the entry from the plugin list. This does not affect the scanning at all so you could deselect everything and still find KK scans for a long time. At least, for years this was always the case, given very little ever changed in KK V2 I wouldn't think this was ever changed either.
To remove theory from fact, here is how the scanning works from what I can determine
Originally, NI made things simple, the registry simply had a flag that set if it was a "first time scan" which would then scan each plugin and gather the plugins details, name, PLID, version, manufacturer which requires the plugin to be loaded to interrogate it, hence why some plugins will trigger registration or license notices during the scan, they are loaded in the background. Once completed this would simply switch this flag to say the scan is complete and next run KK would simply scan the plugins to check they exist which is a quick scan and what should be expected.
At some stage this was one thing that did changed back in v2.x where this flag does not appear any longer in registry (think it was simply called "firstTime" and instead as far as I can tell, KK uses the plugin.data file in AppData (which holds serialized data of all plugins scanned) to check against the plugins scanned and if anything has changed. I have no actual idea how it determines to do a full scan but it will scan based on detected changes so if the plugin paths have files that change, it may require another scan.
In past cases I have seen this issue occur if people add non-VST paths or paths that contain additional files like the root for C:\Program Files or the 32bit folder path. Sometimes plugins that are running in demo or unlicensed, not legit, free/dodgy plugins can cause changes and trigger scans.
It has always been a tried method to simply move all your plugins out of the VST2 (and now VST3) folders and start with first the official NI plugins and check things go smooth. My suggestion is to remove all paths from KK except for the VST3 path, test by adding 10 odd plugins back at a time and if everything tests out fine, add the VST2 path and again, add in plugins slowly and retest. It is a cumbersome problem but having had this issue myself in the past, and finding it was an outdated demo I never removed, it works. I can also say, when I thought disabling plugins was a faster way to test, it did nothing to help.
I also know some actual producers out there who have way more than even 1000+ plugins, like seemingly every plugin ever released, and apparently things work fine for them so it's not a case of "too many plugins" and it doesnt affect everyone, there are some simple workarounds, I always found just pressing ESC while the scanning splash screen is displayed to just be the quickest fix
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Jester
Great overview. All I have is the VST3 path. Probably why my scans are super fast now.
Appreciate the info.VP
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could very well be. I mean, I have VST2 and 3 paths and I don’t get 5 second starts, more like 30 second but I know why, some subscription based plugins like Roland are the cause. I also did have long scans at some stage, think it was an outdated Eventide plugin.
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