Why no support for long term customers?
Hi
I'm a long term customer of both NI and Izotope. I currently have the Komplete Collectors Edition 14 and Izotope music production bundle 6.5 along with a lot of NI hardware.
I'm puzzled why the offers and upgrade prices for me are so atrocious.
£400+ to upgrade to Komplete Collectors, £300 to upgrade to Izotope music production bundle 7 (which contains just one new to me product which retails at less than £100).
New hardware pricing that provides zero benefit to me - I have all the software already. No trade in programmes that encourage me to update my hardware.
I want offers that reward me for being a long term customer, not ones that penalise me or make updating so utterly uneconomic that they're not even worth considering.
Or does NI not feel its existing customers are worth encouraging?
Comments
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"I want offers that reward me for being a long term customer, not ones that penalise me or make updating so utterly uneconomic that they're not even worth considering"
How is offering you ALL of these - utterly uneconomic?:
(new "products" to you in K15 CE):
Action Woodwinds
Alicia's Electric Keys
Conflux
Electric Keys: Diamond
Electric Keys: Phoenix
Guitar Rig 7 Pro
Kontakt 8
Schema: Dark
Schema: Light
Session Bassist - Icon Bass
Session Bassist - Upright Bass
Session Guitarist - Acoustic Sunburst Deluxe
Session Percussionist
Session Ukulele
Spotlight Collection: Ireland
Vocal Colors
(new "Play Series" to you in K15 CE):
Bazzazian Tapes
Bouquet
Duets
Feel it
Glaze 2
Homage
Karriem Riggins Drums
Nacht
Rudiments
Saffron
Sway
Utopia
(new "Expansions" to you in K15 CE):
Bazzazian
Borough Chops
Drift Theory
Drum State
Echo Versions
Hazy Days
Higher Place
Rare Vibrations
Rolling Tides
Velvet Bloom
Void Eclipse
80s New Wave
Acoustic Drums
Afrobeats
Drum Breaks
Disco & Funk
Latin Trap
Lo-Fi Vibes
Platinum Pop
Progessive Trance
R&B Licks
Soul Gold
Hot Vocals
Not worth your consideration at £400?
If none of these appeal to you - I get it. But do not even try to infer that this is not a killer price.
You could buy each one of these at full retail and then come back and tell everyone how "uneconomic" that felt.
VP
-3 -
I have also noticed that my pricing options for upgrades on bundles are pretty steep, considering I've been a generous supporter since the MK1 days of Maschine and that most updates/upgrades/crossgrades only provide one or two new products.
Several plugin companies offer rates based on my current library of their lineups, taking into consideration the ones I own, applying current specials and discounts to the ones I don't have, and offering me a reasonable rate for them.
I'm not looking for handouts either. Just some consideration, logic and reason applied to the prices I'm offered, especially during sales and markdowns.
2 -
£400 is a lot for a ton of stuff I probably won’t use. I’ve still got elements from the 14 collectors edition that I haven’t really even looked at. It came with Guitar Rig Pro 7 and Massive X.
And it’s the same price being offered for people upgrading from earlier editions. There’s nothing there that says, You must update now, to me. Especially as Komplete 8 won’t work on my NI hardware.
So overall it feels like an awful deal for someone who has a lot of existing NI stuff and has been a customer for years.
I want to feel as if NI rewards their existing customers, not tries to fleece them continually.
2 -
That you cannot "use" it - is your issue to work out.
There are thousands of users who see this (and every other) upgrade opportunity very differently.
I will assume for many - they do some basic math and quickly realize that getting ALL that new content that I listed for £400 instead of say - £3000 (if purchased separately) IS very much a "reward" for being a long time customer and they jump all over it.
But each to their own - if you are not happy with the content (or the price) - that's cool - don't buy it.
Most importantly - no one is trying to "fleece" you either. You don't have to buy anything again - ever - if you so choose.
Just a gentle suggestion to forget playing the "entitlement card" - as if the world owes you something. It does not.
VP
-3 -
There are several sales speials throughout the year, it's not always the same offers. Sometimes it is directed to new customers, sometimes it's aimed at customers who already own some products or bundles. If nothing is interesting for you now, maybe it will be more interesting for the next sales special. There's usually 2 big ones in a year, one around Black Friday/Thanksgiving/Xmas and another one in the summer time.
0 -
£400+ to upgrade to Komplete Collectors
Or does NI not feel its existing customers are worth encouraging?
I think that you tend to completely overlook the fact that the price you see are set so that it can also be discounted %50 (?) when the bundle goes on sale. Yes there is a sale going on at the moment but the bundle is too new to be discounted other than if you buy K15 in a bundle with a S-Series keyboard (and the only reason for that offer is to boost keyboard sales).
So when the bundle goes on sale then you will see the nice price that you expect and that will probably be next summer. This is simply how things work , if you have plenty of money and it doesn't matter if you spend £400 then you buy immediately and if your spending is an issue then you wait for a sale. The price you see when the bundle is actually on sale by itself is also aimed at same customers (e.g. you).
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Just a gentle suggestion to forget playing the “NI lawyer card” - as if you owe them something. You do not.
Why concentrating just on the mistake he did bringing Komplete (a good offer) as an example?
He also mentioned other things that surely can raise the question.
Why if I want to buy a Maschine and being a loyal customer I already have the software (3, 4 copies of it…) I must pay the same price as a new user? Because I’m a loyal customer, I’m receiving less (or paying more).
Are NI offers good offers? Yes, many of them are.Are them rewarding loyal customers or more focused towards obtaining new ones? The answer is easy.
Is asking why loyal customers should get “less” definable “entitlement”? It seems for some it is…
It always puzzles me why some love to attack other users so much…
-1 -
£300 to upgrade to Izotope music production bundle 7 (which contains just one new to me product which retails at less than £100)
This is the nature of bundles , if the deal looks sweet to you then you take it , if not then you don't.
But of course then I think that I understand you here. You most likely would like to get the bundle so that you can use that for future bundle updates like you can with the Komplete bundles. And you may have a point. Because if you have all the other products then there ought to be some way of converting your ownership of all the other products into an ownership of the bundles without having to buy a whole new set of licenses which is your real problem here. If you have all the licenses for the iZotope software at iZotope then maybe part of the problem is that N.I. and iZotope accounts have not been fully merged and once that companies and accounts are fully merged then N.I. would maybe start marketing targeting N.I. customers with izotope apps in the sense that people could then receive some a lot better offers when it made more sense technically after the fusion of companies has been completed.
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"It always puzzles me why some love to attack other users so much"
Just as it puzzles me why people simply cannot either use/enjoy what they already have instead of complaining about what they do not have.
Or - don't get - in this case - due to some overbaked expectation bias.
VP
-2 -
And as long term customer I'm also getting stuffed with NI's 'fabulous' 50% off Komplete bundles. Do I get a discount on my upgrade price? Oh no… none at all.
Truly a Black Friday for me..
2 -
But it isnt the customer's problem to figure out. It's always the brand's problem. The customers arent on the market — its the brand that sells itself. Customers do not sell themselves to brands.
This is sort of like saying "this album has 15 songs on it, 10 of which I already own, 8 of which are bad songs, and 2 of them are new and good - so you must pay full price for the whole album because that is how we bundle it. You figure it out" (this leads to no sales, which is indeed "figuring it out").
There is a lot of competition out there lately for NI, so does NI really want to push customers this way? I feel like they wouldnt be smart to do so.0 -
"But it isn't the customer's problem to figure out. It's always the brand's problem. The customers aren't on the market — its the brand that sells itself. Customers do not sell themselves to brands."
NI (as a brand) sold itself long ago. And I am still not seeing an actual problem. The only "problem" (in this case anyway) - seems to rotate around some bizarre expectation that users are not "given" enough - simply because they bought something in the past. Noted - but that is certainly not a "brand" problem.
"This is sort of like saying "this album has 15 songs on it, 10 of which I already own, 8 of which are bad songs, and 2 of them are new and good - so you must pay full price for the whole album because that is how we bundle it. You figure it out" (this leads to no sales, which is indeed "figuring it out")."
Great analogy - but let's say the "brand" in your example is the Rolling Stones. Do you really think Mick and Keith care of you already have 10 of their tracks? "Buy em again Mate!” is what they will say.
They do not care how the product is bundled or what your opinion is of it. Buy it or don’t buy it - is as far as they go. Capitalism at work."There is a lot of competition out there lately for NI, so does NI really want to push customers this way? I feel like they wouldn't be smart to do so."
Of course there is - but it's probably safe to say the other 99% of NIs customer base aren't sniffing around these forums feeling left out because it's Black Friday.
Those potential 10's of thousands of users - are probably out there using their tools for their work right now. And they will (most likely) continue to support NI as long as those tools keep doing their job. Deal or no deal.
Like another user posted in another thread earlier in the week - NI simply can't be bothered with 20 or 30 or 40 people who do not like the rules of the game.
While I am certain that NI never wants any of their customers to be disgruntled - sometimes it can't be helped.
VP
-1 -
It’s fine if the sale doesn’t apply to me because I already own a version of Komplete. No problem. I’ll wait till next summer as usual. But I’d appreciate if the system was smart enough not to waste my time emailing me to tell me “Komplete bundles are 50% off!!!”, only for me to log in and have to figure out for myself that it doesn’t apply to upgrades and it’s only new purchases that are on sale.
2 -
We arent talking about "the rolling stones", who are also grotesquely overpriced, overpaid, overhyped — like almost EVERY musician who crawled out of bloated capitalist economics over the last 60 years. We are talking about a recently exploited music software brand… which is making bad decision after bad decision and then relying on the zero historical memory of newer, younger customers to keep this train groaning along its tracks.
Your perspective "…bizarre expectation that users are not "given" enough - simply because they bought something in the past" isnt a perspective that working class people with good economic sense would share, and these conversations about economics(that have been happening here for something like 2 years solid) do not occur in a vacuum.
There has been a history here, and if you think about the THOUSANDS that some have spent to remain up to date with this brand since roughly 2000, it makes all the sense in the world unless you are a stakeholder or you have so much money that you don't consider value when you buy things you desire. Most of us do, indeed, consider value, loyalty, etc, when making purchasing decisions, and describing this basic ethics as "bizarre" kind of pigeonholes you there.
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The fundamental reality for most companies is that it costs far more to attract and sell to new customers than it does to sell to existing ones.
NI demonstrate this by falling over themselves to offer new customers great deals on their software and hardware. Their entire online ethos is to sell you something new every week.
They're significantly less good at selling to existing customers, many of whom already own a lot of their products. I've seen no deals this month that provide me with any incentive to upgrade. Instead I've spent my money on other companies' products.
And that's NI's loss.
2
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