Which power supply for the Kontrol MK3 S61?

Jahwel

Hello,I just bought a Kontrol MK3 S61. When I unpacked it, I noticed that there is no USB cable compatible with my computer (just a USB-C to USB-C cable) and that there is no power supply. I ordered a USB-C to USB-A cable, hoping that it is compatible!My question is, is a power supply mandatory in addition to the USB cable, to operate the Kontrol? The output is USB-C (identical to the output of mobile phones). Can someone tell me if the power cable is mandatory and if so, give me a link to order the right power supply? I live in France.

leroi1973

Hello Jahwel

In the same situation I bought a

Samsung EP-TA800EBE 

charger plus a USB C cable, it works flawlessly.

Earlier I used a latop charger provided for my Lenovo Thinkpad T14, that also was working well.

Hope it helps

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/38959/which-power-supply-for-the-kontrol-mk3-s61

The USB.A port is not certified to deliver enough power compared to USB-C so if using an USB-A port then a PSU is mandatory if it were not already so. Also in case of problems then N.I. recommends using either the USB-C to A and a power supply or a self powered USB-C hub.

As for the USB-C PSU then I have not tried any personally but someone else reported this as working .

If you have any problems getting your keyboard to work after purchase then please check the Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide , if you still can not get the keyboard to work then please contact N.I. Hardware Support. In case that you need guidance contacting support : How to contact NI Support and How to get in touch with our Customer Care

Also , then should your computer be one of those with a potential USB-C problem then here is a quote from Matthew_NI November 9, 2024

I would like to respond here.

Based on the specific computer and chip set mentioned, and the symptoms described, I am 99% certain this was the USB-C error specific to certain chip sets, affecting peripherals like ours.

We have tried to extensively document this, as there's nothing we can do other than suggest a USB-C hub is used in between the peripherals (e.g. MK3) and the computer, as this bypasses the problematic hardware implementation that certain computers suffer from.

PoorFellow

Does the USB-C to USB-A cable, by plugging it into the sound card, avoid having to plug in a USB-C charger?


Short answer : No ! The USB standards using the USB C type plug usually supply more current as what do most USB standards typically using the A type port.

All the discussions usually going here and most other places are rather careless discussions where we talk about things like USB A and USB C , where USB A and USB C are merely the physical plug that is used by the USB standards. So the discussion ought always be about the standard of the port rather than only about the plug standard type. And the USB standards are e.g. USB 1.0 , 1.1. 2.0 , 3.0, 3.1 , 3.2 , 4.0 (+ add a generation specifier to some of those). The USB A port as far as I know are generally used for USB 1.0 to USB 3.0 but can also be used for UISB 3.1 gen. 1 and 2 .

Confusion doesn't end there , there are also USB function class standards , Quote BeyondLogic.org :

There are three classes of USB functions,

• Low-power bus powered functions
• High-power bus powered functions
• Self-powered functions

Plus apparently ?() then there also a charging current standard, this page claims that "In addition to the improvements in data capability USB 2 also saw an increase in the power provision to 1.8A" (which I think would be a charging standard rather than what is normally provided to devices attached)

Quote Cadence.com : "What are the Maximum Power Output and Data Transfer Rates for the USB Standards?" :

USB Maximum Power Output Standards

In general, the specifications for a USB 1.0 and 2.0 standard downstream port, delivers up to 500 mA or 0.5A. Also, with a USB 3.0, it can provide up to 900mA or 0.9A, which translates into 4.5 watts. These power output specifications are a rating based on the 5 volts from each standard output. However, the USB 3.0 dedicated charging and charging downstream ports provide up to 1,500 mA or 1.5A, which translates into 7.5 watts.

Apparently also then USB3.1 Gen2 increases max current to 5 amp

Even more confusing then this page says that : The USB 3.1 version was an interim standard that is identical to 3.0, except that it increased data transfer rates up to 10 Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen 2). As with USB 3.0, the name for USB 3.1 was updated and is now called USB 3.2 Gen 2. With the upgraded transfer speeds, this earned it the designation SuperSpeed+. Released in July of 2013, version 3.1 used the same connectors (USB A, B, Mini & Micro) as 3.0.

Then this page says : The naming convention recently adopted for USB 3.2 incorporates speed x lanes. For example, USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 means 5 Gbps x 2 lanes, for a connection speed of 10 Gbps.

As far as I can see then Arturia doesn't even care to mention the USB standard specifications of their "sound card" USB hub A ports and I doubt that it supports very high current output

Then for the USB C type plug then it is my understanding that the USB C type plug is used typically for USB standards at least 3.0 and at this point in time typically USB 3.2 something-something which USB standards are supplying more power than previous standards. (Sorry , this all takes extremely long time to digest and try to explain and make sense of so I will not go on in general with the USB standards using the USB C type plug)

P.S. 1 : Also you can read the The History of USB Standards from 1.0 to USB4

P.S. 2 : and this section of page here : USB Power Delivery 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 Standards - Confused yet?

leroi1973

Hello Jahwel

In the same situation I bought a

Samsung EP-TA800EBE 

charger plus a USB C cable, it works flawlessly.

Earlier I used a latop charger provided for my Lenovo Thinkpad T14, that also was working well.

Hope it helps

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/38959/which-power-supply-for-the-kontrol-mk3-s61

The USB.A port is not certified to deliver enough power compared to USB-C so if using an USB-A port then a PSU is mandatory if it were not already so. Also in case of problems then N.I. recommends using either the USB-C to A and a power supply or a self powered USB-C hub.

As for the USB-C PSU then I have not tried any personally but someone else reported this as working .

If you have any problems getting your keyboard to work after purchase then please check the Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide , if you still can not get the keyboard to work then please contact N.I. Hardware Support. In case that you need guidance contacting support : How to contact NI Support and How to get in touch with our Customer Care

Also , then should your computer be one of those with a potential USB-C problem then here is a quote from Matthew_NI November 9, 2024

I would like to respond here.

Based on the specific computer and chip set mentioned, and the symptoms described, I am 99% certain this was the USB-C error specific to certain chip sets, affecting peripherals like ours.

We have tried to extensively document this, as there's nothing we can do other than suggest a USB-C hub is used in between the peripherals (e.g. MK3) and the computer, as this bypasses the problematic hardware implementation that certain computers suffer from.

Jahwel

Thank you for your answers,

Thanks leroi1973, for the Samsung charger, I will try it, it seems to fit well

The idea of ​​the USB-C hub seems good. I found one that can plug into the PC. All this adds up to extra costs! Native did not deliver on this point!

I was plugging my latest keyboard into the standard USB input of my Arturia sound card. Does the USB-C to USB-A cable, by plugging it into the sound card, avoid having to plug in a USB-C charger?


PoorFellow

Does the USB-C to USB-A cable, by plugging it into the sound card, avoid having to plug in a USB-C charger?


Short answer : No ! The USB standards using the USB C type plug usually supply more current as what do most USB standards typically using the A type port.

All the discussions usually going here and most other places are rather careless discussions where we talk about things like USB A and USB C , where USB A and USB C are merely the physical plug that is used by the USB standards. So the discussion ought always be about the standard of the port rather than only about the plug standard type. And the USB standards are e.g. USB 1.0 , 1.1. 2.0 , 3.0, 3.1 , 3.2 , 4.0 (+ add a generation specifier to some of those). The USB A port as far as I know are generally used for USB 1.0 to USB 3.0 but can also be used for UISB 3.1 gen. 1 and 2 .

Confusion doesn't end there , there are also USB function class standards , Quote BeyondLogic.org :

There are three classes of USB functions,

• Low-power bus powered functions
• High-power bus powered functions
• Self-powered functions

Plus apparently ?() then there also a charging current standard, this page claims that "In addition to the improvements in data capability USB 2 also saw an increase in the power provision to 1.8A" (which I think would be a charging standard rather than what is normally provided to devices attached)

Quote Cadence.com : "What are the Maximum Power Output and Data Transfer Rates for the USB Standards?" :

USB Maximum Power Output Standards

In general, the specifications for a USB 1.0 and 2.0 standard downstream port, delivers up to 500 mA or 0.5A. Also, with a USB 3.0, it can provide up to 900mA or 0.9A, which translates into 4.5 watts. These power output specifications are a rating based on the 5 volts from each standard output. However, the USB 3.0 dedicated charging and charging downstream ports provide up to 1,500 mA or 1.5A, which translates into 7.5 watts.

Apparently also then USB3.1 Gen2 increases max current to 5 amp

Even more confusing then this page says that : The USB 3.1 version was an interim standard that is identical to 3.0, except that it increased data transfer rates up to 10 Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen 2). As with USB 3.0, the name for USB 3.1 was updated and is now called USB 3.2 Gen 2. With the upgraded transfer speeds, this earned it the designation SuperSpeed+. Released in July of 2013, version 3.1 used the same connectors (USB A, B, Mini & Micro) as 3.0.

Then this page says : The naming convention recently adopted for USB 3.2 incorporates speed x lanes. For example, USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 means 5 Gbps x 2 lanes, for a connection speed of 10 Gbps.

As far as I can see then Arturia doesn't even care to mention the USB standard specifications of their "sound card" USB hub A ports and I doubt that it supports very high current output

Then for the USB C type plug then it is my understanding that the USB C type plug is used typically for USB standards at least 3.0 and at this point in time typically USB 3.2 something-something which USB standards are supplying more power than previous standards. (Sorry , this all takes extremely long time to digest and try to explain and make sense of so I will not go on in general with the USB standards using the USB C type plug)

P.S. 1 : Also you can read the The History of USB Standards from 1.0 to USB4

P.S. 2 : and this section of page here : USB Power Delivery 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 Standards - Confused yet?

Jahwel

Precisely because it's complicated and there are dozens of USB cables and USB-C chargers, it requires testing and spending several dozen euros. I find it almost unacceptable that Native Instruments doesn't provide either the cable or the charger! I think the majority can't use the USB-C to USB-C cable! They could have at least given references for cables or chargers compatible with their Kontrol! Here, it's make do with what Native provides and too bad, for the time and money their customers lose! At the still high price, it would have been the least they could do, than add a cable and a charger! I just spent 60 euros on cables, which I have to wait for... and I'm not even sure they'll be compatible! Hoping it doesn't burn my keyboard! Not happy :(