I feel cheated and tricked by Native Instruments

Kamil NAGRNIA

I feel cheated and tricked by Native Instruments

I bought a System Kontrol 88 keyboard from the Thomman store in mid-2024 - I received a KOMPLET 14 Select sound package with it - then less than three months ago I updated the package to the Kontrol STANDARD 14 version for which I paid an additional 199 euros. After three months, a new version of KOMPLET STNDARD 15 was released and again I see a price of 199 euros for the possibility of updating. Shouldn't there be a provision in European law in the Treaties and Legal Regulations that after purchasing the software, the customer is covered by the protection of a guarantee of the possibility of downloading all new updates for the next period of up to 6 months? Doesn't proposing a promotion for the purchase of an older version just before a new update give rise to the practice of a prohibited act in the form of acting to the detriment of customers and thus extorting money? Doesn't Native Instrument undermine customer trust with such action and leave a bad taste in the audio industry? I think I should be able to get a free update to KOMPLETE STANDARD 15, because the time from purchase to the next update was too short - 3 months. Can anyone help me with this?

Vocalpoint

I think I should be able to get a free update to KOMPLETE STANDARD 15, because the time from purchase to the next update was too short - 3 months. Can anyone help me with this?

Would be awesome if we all got free upgrades everytime Komplete was released - but not realistic

I have never seen a free "upgrade" (OR even a grace period) for Komplete ever since I have been an NI customer - dating back to 2002. Probably because Komplete is more of a marketing "offering" and not really an actual product.

That said - NI has been offering Komplete since the early 2000's with the same general cycle and the same price model.

It is no secret that like the changing of the seasons - every second "even" year for the last decade + (2024, 2022, 2020 etc) Komplete arrives in the last week of September like the falling leaves.

Anyone can quickly determine when the next one will be released.

Why not just enjoy your new K14 Standard package with S88 and do what many of us will do - wait until the Summer of Sound in June 2025 to score a major Komplete upgrade deal?

VP

chk071

Un-be-lievable.

I wonder how entitled you can get.

Kamil NAGRNIA

I bought the KOMPLETE 88 Native Instrument keyboard, because it was recommended by a friend as an instrument from a reliable company. Although the Kompete 88 keyboard is twice as expensive as the keyboard offered by the competition, it was supposed to contain a package of sounds thanks to which work on creating music would be easy and enjoyable. So I spent about 1300 euros. It turned out that the sound package of the Complete Select is a basic package that does not contain any interesting sounds and classical instruments. I heard in the store that I should update the program to the larger version STANDARD, which will already contain an appropriate database of instruments and sounds. So I gritted my teeth and spent another 200 euros. It turned out that Native Instruments, a few months before the planned update of version 15, without informing about it on its website, introduced a promotion for its exorbitantly priced plugin packages, which I believe is a reprehensible practice because its sole purpose is to take money out of customers' pockets, because the customer should make purchases with full awareness and transparency of the program offered. Therefore, by updating the program to the STANDARD version and spending 200 euros on the package, after a few months they receive another offer to spend 200 euros on the same version of the STANDARD program, specified as no. 15. Are these practices worthy of a company that respects its customers and cares about its reputation? Is announcing a promotion a few months before the planned new update such a deceitful trick of a supposed promotion that causes customers to lose 200 euros because without buying in a few months for the same money they could have been able to update the program to a newer version? In this matter, I can only submit an interpellation to the European Parliament to introduce changes to the provisions of the Act in Europe protecting the interests of consumers against such practices, which hit the interests of consumers through the lack of proper consumer protection, which does not guarantee, for example, 6 months of the possibility of updating to the latest version of the system with the same standard. The STNDARD version is still a version with a very limited number of sounds and only the Collector's or Ultimate version gives you the possibility of creating film and instrumental music. Sounds created as a result of sound synthesis offered as a STNDARD collection of sounds is a pathetic approach. That is why I feel fooled when I buy an expensive instrument with software that is only used for fun, creating sounds of 8-bit video games for computers from 30 years ago, such as ATARI 800 XL or Comodore.

Kamil NAGRNIA

He suggests that after purchasing a given update, there should be a protection/warranty for a set period of time for the possibility of receiving the latest version of the system, so that companies cannot use monopolistic practices of cyclical paid updates with the sole purpose of draining customers' wallets and hiding the release date of the newer version. These are practices with the characteristics of a prohibited act acting to the detriment of consumers.

Kamil NAGRNIA

One of the fundamental rights of Union citizens - every citizen, acting individually or jointly with others, may at any time exercise his or her right to submit a petition to the European Parliament, based on Article 227 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

DunedinDragon

Yeah….good luck with that.

I notice you didn't give any dates about when you purchased such things and how long you had them before you decided to upgrade. Even after spending the money you make no note of any complaints you lodged with the company in order to redress your issues and a record of their responses to you.

Good luck finding a lawyer that will pursue this. I'm sure NI will have plenty of them….

Kamil NAGRNIA

I am waiting for a decision for 7 days, after which I will take action. A few months ago in June 2024 I updated Kompet Select to the Standard version for which I paid 200 euros in a store in Poland, after a few months I receive another offer to update for 200 euros to the STANDARD version. Do I have to pay twice for the same service within a few months? Don't you see a problem? Maybe the relevant European authorities will notice the problem.

Vocalpoint

"Do I have to pay twice for the same service within a few months?"

You do not have to do anything. Who is asking you to "pay" twice? And for what service? There is no service here.

"Don't you see a problem?"

No.

The only problem I see is you (incorrectly) assuming that one version of Komplete is somehow related to the next one. It is not and never have been.

Komplete is NOT a product - it is a standalone "collection" license and always have been. Komplete is not updatable either. Buying the "next" one - does not effect your current one at all.

If/when you choose to upgrade/update a Komplete bundle to a higher tier (Like Standard to Ultimate) OR to the next bundle version (like 14→15) you get (potentially) thousands of dollars worth of new products (that you never had before) added to your NI account - all for one very awesome price.

What's not to like?

VP

Kamil NAGRNIA

Despite the launch of the new version of the KOMPETE 15 program in the SELECT, STANDARD, ULTIMATE, COLLECTOR'S version on September 23, 2024, the previous version 14 of this program is still being sold in many stores in Poland, more than a month after the introduction of the new version, which means that Native Instruments is relying on the unfair practice of offering an older version of the product in the Republic of Poland in order to force customers to pay additional fees in the form of paid updates. Such practices constitute a prohibited act and I will apply to the European Parliament to punish Narive Instruments and discontinue this type of procedure. Because it is the company distributing the software that is obliged to honestly inform its distributors in order to withdraw older versions of the software from the market as soon as possible. Through such omissions, it creates additional costs for consumers and generates additional profits for Native Instrument. After purchasing a given update, the customer should be covered by protection / warranty for a period determined in advance by the company, which will include the possibility of receiving the latest version of the program along with all additional options, so that companies cannot use monopolistic practices of cyclical paid updates with the sole purpose of draining customer wallets and hiding the release date of the newer version. These are practices with the characteristics of a prohibited act that work to the detriment of consumers. I am attaching links to stores that still offer the KOMPLETE 14 program in their sales offer on October 30, 2024 as evidence confirming my thesis about the purposefulness of Native Instruments' actions.

Vocalpoint

Wow. Ok. Can’t compete with this.

Good luck.

VP

DunedinDragon

Once again, good luck with that.

Native Instruments has no control over what dealers or distributors do with those products in their inventory. In general dealers discount and promote products that are being replaced with newer products so they can have the money to buy new inventory. The facts are that Native Instruments is two steps removed from your problems. First the distributor buys the product from NI and the store orders the product from the distributor. Native Instruments has nothing to do with the store. They only deal with the distributor and sell in bulk.

You, on the other hand have always had full access to Native Instrument's product announcements the moment they are announced and become public. You also had full access to their warranties on all products, and I'm pretty sure they included the standard statement about any further warranties implied or assumed by anyone other than Native Instruments is invalid. So you have no right to demand additional warranties after the fact that were not covered on the product when you bought it. That's part of YOUR legal obligation to understand what you're buying. How much of that did research did you do? Did you even bother to read the terms and conditions you agreed to when you installed the product? That's all YOUR responsibilities which you will have to answer for in any legal action.

What you can rest assured of is that Native Instruments, the Distributor and the Dealer ALL have lawyers on retainer to make sure they're on firm legal ground in any transaction with their products well before they're put on the market. Do you have the same?

LostInFoundation

Trying to belittle someone saying “they have lawyers, you don’t” is a quite strange way to confront.

I’m not saying what OP says is correct… I don’t 100% agree with him

And…since they DO have lawyers, they don’t need other users to behave like they also are. Even because you don’t get well paid like the official ones do…

In any case, NI DOES have a grace period (Not sure it is applicable after 3+ months). It just doesn’t get advertised, so that people not knowing it won’t profit of it…another not so transparent behavior. And here resides the difference between them and other companies that I find more honest. Last time I bought an upgrade for my Studio One from Presonus (heavily discounted too), after some months the new version came out. I didn’t have to ask for it, nor complain. Not even know of the existence of the grace period. They just wrote me “since you upgraded not so long ago (if I recall correctly it was 4 months), we will give you the new version for free”.

And Presonus is not a philanthropic organization. They just know how to keep their users satisfied and their brand name positively talked about. These are called “good business practices”. The ones that keep your company trusted and healthy

See the difference?

chk071

NI should grant him the grace period, just to satisfy his entitled and delusional views on how the world and companies should work. If a baby cries, give it a pacifier. Unfortunately, that's how many adults "roll" these days… Especially recently, I see a lot of borderline insane behavior like this in many forums I visit. It's scary to see.

The unfortunate learning effect is that the baby thinks it can get everything, if it just cries enough. But, that's also how the world works these days, if you take a look around.

stephen24

1. Be sure you are clear about the difference between an update and an upgrade.
2. Make a solemn promise to let us know how you get on, come what may.

LostInFoundation

They should grant only if it’s in NI policies or if it’s in EU laws.

And while they are on the case, they could also say to some other users here in the forum to stop behaving like they are superior to others… Being adult also means being able to discuss without acting like the one that understands everything while the others are just babies crying…(something my studies in psychology associate as closer to a “borderline insane behavior” than anything else)…

Btw: the”views on how the world and companies should work” are exactly the things that lead to some consumer’s protection laws of which even the “superior” human beings can profit of.

Yes, if I take a look around, I can see a lot rudeness. Starting from people demanding things… to rude self proclaimed “superior beings”