Next update

Ita seems that the midi template update was a successful many love and create templates which is fine so any new updates on the latest quarter rollout much needs to be address which has been covered in past discussions.. is there a new roadmap or are we just quiet until the next controller release?

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DunedinDragon

@Matthew_NI has been pretty forthcoming about the next thing on the agenda being the play assist and arp capabilities plus maybe some other trinkets if time and resources allow.

Beatsandmore

Well his dates have been wrong it would be nice to have a weekly update.. I have not used my mk3 at all period.. the soft is so bad I just use my arturia keylab mk3

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172888#Comment_172888

That's entirely up to you. Mine has been in constant use since January.

@Matthew_NI doesn't control the schedule, he just conveys the situation to us. Personally I prefer to get updates like this one which was functionally complete per his description, solid performance, no unexpected issues even if it takes more time. I'd rather have it right than fast. I'm going to step out on a ledge and bet your employer would prefer that from you as well…..

Beatsandmore

I agree with most of what you wrote except. I don't pay to be be employed.. we pay to keep native instruments employed.. that's nothing all nothing more 😆..

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172914#Comment_172914

As does your employer with you….

Ojustaboo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172888#Comment_172888

Trouble with writing complex software is that when you give a date (this applies for any company), you are really pulling a random date out of the air.

If people aren’t given a date, they scream and holler demanding some idea.

When companies respond that they don’t like giving dates because when they tell customers the dates an estimate, customers still go berserk if these dates are missed, we beg them to give us dates anyway, and assure them we won’t complain if the dates are missed etc.

Then the dates are missed and while you, I, many of the others don’t howl and scream, there’s loads and loads of others who do. People say “you said this would be released by September, it’s now October….”

Again this applies to all companies and is why companies hate being held to a date.

Weekly updates are pointless because they are meaninglessness.

Let’s take midi templates. What sort of update would you have wanted? In depth info that most can’t understand, or basic info that really tells us nothing?

Either way it would cause a load of posts causing the mods to step in or NI staff to stop working on what they are supposed to be working on, and instead post on here explaining that they did not say/mean what abc accused them of, what they said ……………………

Week 1: Road map for Midi Templates set out

Week 2: programmers working on …………….

…

Week 12 It’s looking good, next week hopefully going to beta

Week 13. Sorry, unexpected problem came up with xyz, this has had a knock on effect with abc and we need to get them fixed first

Followed by a load of totally unnecessary posts towards them, slagging them off, saying their programmers are ******, no one knows what they are doing, poster saying he/she is never using companies products again etc etc etc

Week 18 it’s looking good, hopefully start beta next week providing no other serious show stopping bugs are discovered

Week 19. Sorry we discovered another critical problem ………

Followed again by a load of unnecessary posts……..

Rinse and repeat again and again and again before it finally ends up in beta and is eventually released to the public (and in Native Instruments case, their midi templates have received a very very good welcome).

or do what NI did, staff spent time telling us what they could, estimating when they hope to have it released, still received abuse for not sticking to these dates, but in my opinion at least ten times less abuse than had they given weekly updates.

While many do miss Maschine integration, many others myself included, never used it. Obviously if you did then you miss it and can’t fathom why they removed it, I totally understand that.

What I don’t understand is what is it about the software that is so bad that it makes you leave your S mk3 unused and your Arturia Keylab Essential mk3 superior?

At my main desk I have:

Native instruments S88 mk3

Arturia Keylab 61 mk2

Native Instruments Maschine mk3

I also have Arturia Keylab Essential 49 mk3 that I use when in my armchair with my laptop.

If you had said that you didn’t like your S mk3 as it didn’t have enough controls on it, I personally could totally understand it (although I would question your decision to purchase)

I’ve said a few times both on here and on Arturias forum how I purchased my Arturia Keylab 61 mk2 at the same time as my S88 and love them both.

I go on to say they compliment one another and how just the NI S88 mk3 by itself wouldn’t do it for me, I need more control which the Arturia gives me. Likewise browsing on the Arturia (both my Keylab and Keylab essential) well the NI S88 mk3 is on a completely different level, it’s leap years ahead.

Admittedly I haven’t used either to control my DAW very often, the times I have, both keylabs and the S88 all control channel volume great and the S88 gives me a high res display of the channel volumes.

So, my S88 has much better browsing than either of my keylabs, it has hires channel display when using the knobs to control my DAW, it’s new midi templates are out of this world.

The only thing I can think of that some owners might be upset about is the lack of maschine integration and while I personally never used this when I owned my S61 mk2, I do think I fully understand their anger.

That said, there’s zero maschine integration on the Arturia keylabs so I still don’t understand why your NI mk3 is sitting unused due to ****** software?

Edit: Edited to correct spelling and make a few parts more readable, content hasn't changed

Beatsandmore

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172921#Comment_172921

Ok so I'm not a kid I have been with the same company for 26 years in 3 different fields in engineering. First as IT engineering and a solutions architect. Now automation engineer. At no time have my employer invested in what I have not produced as an engineer.. please don't compare a pay as u go application for hobby to a career based on college educated to working 50 - 80 hours a week making a difference in a corporation..

Beatsandmore

Great post and I cherry picked a few because it was long and detailed and appreciate your response.

I don't use komplete kontrol for the 2 reason I bought it for was scaling and to use with libraries and to have total control over them. With kontakt it works great but no scaling assist. now komplete kontrol software loads slow crashes in cubase with you load multiple instances and no scale assist. I can use my reason software or cubase to scale my chords..

So I use my arturia keylab pro because its solid robust qnd analog lab is a beast and fast no slow loading or crashes.. i can use scaling in cubase or other software including reason as a plugin. We bought the controller for the features and to wait almost a year to get limited feedback except quarter xxx and no news or any slow but fix is crazy.. midi templates does nothing for me that's not why i bought it.. if they said before i hit purchase that the features I wanted and was promised was not going to be released for a year or 2 would have held off now $900 plus invested and waiting..

Other companies are releasing products and investing in there products NI will release a new maschine controller and still have komplete kontrol be where it is.. I'm not a fan boy but a paying customer that deserves what was promoted.. that's all..

I really like what you wrote yes I do get it but it's a plane ticket I spent that I could used for vacation in investing in kontrol mk3 😆

Ojustaboo

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172952#Comment_172952

I understand now, thanks. Their S mk3 series launch was a big balls up in my opinion that badly damaged their reputation. Hopefully their future decisions will repair this.

I'm no fan boy either, I really like both NI Komplete/kontakt etc and Arturias V collection, Pigments and wouldn't be without either.

Currently, I think that had Arturia had a similar thing to NKS where everything from NI worked in Analog Labs, I think I would probably just use Analog Labs rather than Komplete Kontrol (but that could easily change with future updates).

NI has made a superb marketing move with their NKS because as I'm using both, I tend to just use Arturias products from within Komplete Kontrol.

Competition is always a good thing though so hopefully the future will be bright from both companies.

Beatsandmore

Great read and yes I agree with you +1..

MorrisEd

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/172943#Comment_172943

MiDI templates should have been on the keyboard at launch. NI gaslit everyone by saying it wasn’t a widely used feature, which I believe is now proven false given how many users now seem to have pulled a 180 and praised the update like the greatest thing since sliced bread. NI Kontrol keyboards have an average lifespan of 5 years, and NI has done ONE update in the first year. This suggests we’ll get five updates over the product life cycle. NI promised accessibility features next, which will probably come in 2025 as update 2. The point of all this being that the Kontrol MK3 is probably doing all it will do in terms of functionality for a long while. I think users are best advised to skip this MK3 upgrade since the MK2 is cheap now and in no danger of being discontinued given the size of the user base. Also, NI is not a company we should ever expect updates from. They mainly do bug fixes and even then those updates usually create more bugs. I am skipping all updates from them now that I have the midi templates and my system is finally functional.

Also, I just want to add about the Maschine integration - I had no interest in Maschine when it came out. The only reason I started using it is because it was integrated on my MK2, which made me curious about it. I ended up buying it and using it extensively. The integration removal on the Mk3 was a real bummer for (although no midi templates was way more disappointing). They lost me as a Maschine customer since I stopped using it once its future was in doubt. I don’t understand how this makes sense because I can say 100% that I will not buy a Maschine MK4. Hard for me to understand how that isn’t a huge failure considering I did buy the Mikro; MK3; and Jam. I also haven’t bought one plug in from them this year due to the MK3 midi template fiasco whereas I used to buy every one at launch. What company survives by losing customers?

JesterMgee

Yeah I agree with the "Midi Templates should have been included at launch" as should have accessibility and several other missing features that were all present in V2. Not something i'm praising where almost a year of time is needed to release the first basic feature. I know some actual talented programmers that could likely build a whole new KK from scratch with almost everything people want in that time.

When a new version of software comes out it is logical that people expect it improves and builds on the previous version, Especially when it is a forced "update" that replaces the previous version in Native Access as the new version (not optional). One thing I never see in any software product is whole features and large chunks of function (absolutely needed by some users) completely removed with an update, without any notice or warning that they are no longer a thing (Maschine integration for instance). Also, things like the Sub Bank issue is a BUG that is seemingly taken with no seriousness as I cannot find one confirmation from NI in the Beta, on the forums that this will be addressed or even confirmed as an issue!

If they wanted to make a new version they should have focused to develop the features and test the software properly with another year before release. Seems very clear to me that this should have released end of this year not last, but likely there are investors back there hounding the powers that be about drops in profits and since the other attempts at quick cash grabs failed (sounds.com) why not push this out quicker and just develop it while the user base beta tests it. Not sure this more would have done any good for long term stability, only for the short initial peak of sales before it dies out after users become as frustrated as some of us long time users.

Beatsandmore

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/173100#Comment_173100

Yes sub banks should have been the next update .. the hard work you and the money we spent are now hampered by a half a*s release.. I could careless about what they are working just release something now..

Beatsandmore

Jester I agree I did have a post but was deleted.. all good

BIF

Well, I too am and have been happy with KK MK3 and the KK software. We got our MIDI Templates and the team is now working on the next thing. It will probably be another year or three until KK meets 50% of the forum members' expectations.

That's just the facts of life in software development. We can keep complaining or we can move forward with a can-do attitude.

Things take time. Things always take more time than you think. And if you want them done RIGHT, then they will take even more time than that. As a manager, I learn this lesson every day. We have to stop feeling personally insulted every time this happens.

Besides that, the evidence is clear. KK is now shipshape enough for you to do real work while we continue to wait for more improvements. As @DunedinDragon says above, it's been possible to make music with MK3 since January. And now with MIDI Templates, it's even better.

So I challenge everybody. There is nothing preventing you from upgrading to MK3 unless you just don't like it. If that's the case, I get it. But going on and on and on beating this horse is just getting kind of cruel.

I think we all need to admit that NI's team members have produced a very good and very workable update.

So don't upgrade if you still don't like it. Just use a different MIDI controller keyboard and get on with it.

If they were NI users (and I'll bet some or all of them are), I'm pretty sure Jan Hammer wouldn't be wasting his time dissing NI at every turn. I'm also pretty sure Bob Katz, Hans Zimmer, Philip Glass, Rachel Portman, Caroline Shaw, or Jeff Russo aren't continually saying hurtful things about how they could have done a better job writing KK code.

Whether you use KK or not, that's a decision you get to make. So make it.

In the meantime, let's all have some grace. I suggest to you that NI has earned it.

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