can't Kontrol external gear ?

dunego

I have a bunch of external gear and I want to connect the midi out cable of the kontrol s61 mk3 to a midi in of a synth and I'm trying to do it for about an hour with no luck. No signal is being sent out. I read this in the manual:

If you power up the Kontrol keyboard without USB host connection to your computer, the keyboard
automatically switches to MIDI mode and sends its MIDI messages to the MIDI OUT socket on the
keyboard’s rear panel. This allows you to use the keyboard as a stand-alone MIDI controller with
any MIDI device connected to that socket.

The problem is:

1. I don't want to stop using Komplete Kontrol to do this, I have a hybrid setup, I want to use Komplete on a track on my daw, and an external synth on another track, and want to send MIDI from s61 directly to the synth, that sends audio back to my daw. I have a midi patchbay to control this but won't even talk about this to keep it simple, since I'm not even getting midi out signal.
2. My s61 is connected with the cable supplied with the keyboard, that doesn't even fit the other connection for power without data. Anyway I would have to: have another cable ready, turn off the keyboard, change the power cable, turn on the keyboard, play what I want, then turn off the keyboard, change cables, turn on the keyboard, and now I can use the komplete again. Serious ? I was doing better with my korg triton 20+ years old.

I found that on the the midi settings the s61 doesn't even have a midi channel select, can't I send midi out to different midi channels ? I used to do this in my old triton, I can't believe I can't do it with s61 which is sold as a MIDI CONTROLLER. If this is correct and I'm not missing something, this thing has to be sold as exclusive NI Software controller as opposed to a general midi controller as it's sold.

Simchris

Kontrol mk3 is designed to control the Komplete Kontrol software or external MIDI gear in MIDI mode; I don't think you can do both at the same time, as that is kind of like trying to watch two TV channels at same time. The KONTROL is sold as a front end for the Komplete Kontrol and KONTAKT software, it is not sold as general MIDI controller. Comparing this to a Triton is like comparing milk and orange juice, two completely different beverages. It is sold as a front end for NI software and not general purpose MIDI controller.

Mark Oxley

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/163743#Comment_163743

Kontrol MK3 has midi mode and midi in and out ports which would have you believe it can function as a midi controller keyboard outside of NI's software. Currently at the time of writing this it doesn't support selecting of Midi out channels but hopefully this will be addressed as part of the beta testing of Midi support that's still taking place and allegedly due to be released sometime soon.

My S61 MK2 keyboard can and does control midi external synths inside Komplete Kontrol software (stand alone mode) so there's no reason this shouldn't be achievable with s series MK3 keyboards too.

dunego

" Stay in the flow with our next-generation MIDI keyboard controller. Seamlessly control instruments, effects, and your DAW. "

Literally the first sentence on their s61 advertising. I'm not comparing my triton with a midi controller, since Triton isn't a midi controller, it's a workstation, synth instrument, that obviously has midi. I also have a synth from 1986 or something that has midi and I can choose the midi output channel. Every single instrument I put my hands on that has a Midi out, has a simple way to select one of the 16 midi output channels. I still think that's possible with s61 in standalone mode and I just don't know how. When you are in a Daw using komplete kontrol on a track, and you go to the next track, S61 automatically switch to the midi controller mode, which means general midi controller. It wouldn't sell like it sells, if it was sold as a Komplete Kontrol and Kontakt controller, because of space. Most people use this keyboard in front of a daw that has a bunch of other stuff to play with, sometimes all in the box, but even then, still in need of a keyboard that works as a general midi controller. If you choose to get a DSI Prophet Rev2, or any Arturia controller, it can do it. I still think that s61 has a way to do it. Look, I used to do it on my Maschine Mk3, I still have it in my closet, just not using it now, but I used to have Maschine midi outs connected to my midi patchbay triggering hardware samplers on a maschine track, inside maschine software, which means maschine was sending parallel midi signals through usb and the legacy midi cable.

Anyway I figured out a workaround for the first issue redirecting the midi output through my interface on a track in the daw, then to my midi patchbay, so I can choose whatever midi channel to send.

dunego

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/163744#Comment_163744

Good to know there will be a firmware update for that. Thank you.

Simchris

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/163744#Comment_163744

Obviously. However, comparing it to a dedicated MIDI controller designed more specifically for external synths is not really fair since it's primarily a dedicated front end for synths. For instance the big giant display doesn't show you an image of an external synth when you attach it - long time NI user, since mk1 and MIDI users since 1984, so know how MIDI works, thanks. :)

Mark Oxley

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/164030#Comment_164030

The point I'm making is that according to NI's own description the S series Kontrol MK3 keyboards support midi, describing it as a midi controller keyboard. Yet as it stands now and since it's release 9 months ago it still doesn't support basic 1st gen midi functions let alone midi 2.0. It's just not good enough to describe it as a midi controller keyboard and make it appear to look like it is when you can't even do something as simple as selecting the midi out channels.

I too have been using midi since the 80's for what it's worth.

Kymeia

There is a way to route MIDI to external hardware without disconnecting the USB MIDI but it requires having another audio/MIDI interface (but most musicians using outboard will have one)

So what I do is use Plogue Bidule (you can do this with the free version) to connect the internal MIDI out from KK to the MIDI in of my RME Fireface, then connect the Fireface MIDI out to my hardware synths.

JesterMgee

The whole discussion around how the MIDI works on these keyboards has been ongoing since the MK1 and while it can be routed via software back out of a PC reasonably easy in any DAW, one would have thought that after constant user feedback and 3 hardware revisions over almost 15 years that some thought could have been made to include a rather simple setup option within the keyboards on-board settings (like almost all basic midi keyboards have) to choose how you want the MIDI out to function when connected to a PC. It could be set to output MIDI from PC or direct from Keyboard and if you wanted to get really wild on the features, you could even select the channel to send on (dare I even suggest such an advanced feature from the future). I mean even the Akai Advance could do this kind of basic thing from what I recall.

This isn't about comparing to "dedicated MIDI controllers" this is about even the basics of function missing from a $1k+ keyboard even after years of user feedback on the matter, just demonstrates the lack of listening/caring to what any user wants. The latest release with nothing really new to offer and even more removed seems to me, a case of "how little function can we offer and still charge premium pricing for…"

Simchris

what the mcgee said 👍🏻