Missing features in v3.0 with S Kontrol MK3?

DirtyJawa

What's currently missing on S Kontrol MK3 using v3.0 software, as compared to MK2 using v2.0 software?

I'm confused, because the manuals are separate. The manual acts as though the MK2 features (MIDI templates) are included in all of them, but clearly this is being worked on with priority by NI.

Additional question:

What is the best work-around for keyboard splits (with light guide) for MK3 using v3.0?
I use Kontakt 7 for sample library splits, but I want to split VST synths and hardware synths with light guide too. Is there a way to do this natively within Kontakt, Kontrol, or the hardware?

PoorFellow

As for the V2 versus V3 thn I have this quote for you by resident NKS expert Jestermgee :

Quote Jestermgee , proprietor of FreelanceSoundLabs :

What you highlight here is just one of the problems with V3 over V2. What you need to understand is some users that are like me have been using KK in the same way for 10+ years. A new user who has never used KK or maybe only used it to a basic degree will not experience the issues in the same way but here is a list of just what KK V2 does much better (IMO) than V3, all the bugs, compatibility and VST2/3 mess aside:

• Simpler layout all in a single view! Biggest gripe is now you have tags, presets and the plugin all on separate panels. It feels clunky and unintuitive to drive compared to the nice list on the side of the window you could browse and filter while using the plugin. This is something if you search is echoed by many users on this forum.
• As you mentioned "more is done from the keyboard" but not all of us like switching gaze to the keyboard. If you are like me you have the KB on a pull out draw and often the screen is not pulled out when hunting or just playing sounds. In many cases, I would still use the keyboard browser wheel and browse button to switch presets quickly while using the mouse to click parameters in the plugin at the same time, but I would often do that by feel while watching the KK instance on-screen. This is now no longer possible and the 2 are completely detached so no longer can you see what you do on the keyboard on the computer screen too!
• The browser again, the list of presets is spread across a horizontal column browser now and scrolls sideways. This is not easy to scan fast through files for a certain name or sound type. Also, because these columns are a fixed width the preset names have now truncated/cut off a lot where previously, rarely ever was anything cut short. Some may be bothered more about this than others but every application and windows browser I use is just a single list, simple to scan with the eye.
• The text brightness compared to the background for the preset list is also not as easy to read but that could be different for others, maybe those of us with colour-blindness are more affected.
• The Banks are also heavily truncated and not simple to even see in the whole UI. Additionally, for many libraries there are no sub banks displayed which may be a bug but still yet to even be confirmed by support, just many users. .
• System Efficiency! This may improve but the first thing I looked at when testing was the comparative CPU and RAM demands which I pegged at about 20-30% more than V2. THis was confirmed the resource demands to be higher because of the new UI and I guessed some users who had large sets with lots of instances of KK would likely find their system grinds to a halt. Those reports started coming through and users quickly reverted back to V2. I really valued KK for its efficiency and was a huge promoter around here on how much value it added for such little resources.
• There has been zero new features introduced that users have asked for over the years that could have been super simple and very welcomed (other than resizable GUI which now is not as important given the old side browser and all the tag views is not visible with the plugin. Things like ability to filter OUT a tag for sounds you don't want in a search. Ability to SAVE a filter for simple recall anytime. A damn Random select or ability to sort the list of presets randomly to aid in "finding a gem" of a sound. These are just a few basic things that I recall being asked for way back with the MK1 by others…

I could keep going, but I think you see my point. The depressing thing is almost everything I have listed will not change, that is the way forward for KK and history tells me nothing we users say will make a lick of difference. There are other issues that have caused me dissapointment like a bug several of us reported with many VST3 plugins would not show the GUI in KK V2 in Ableton. This was closed off (incorrectly) without being tested or confirmed and I never even received a note my ticket was closed, I have been using VST2 for most of them still and this issue is STILL present in V3. This was all acknowledged as a failure in the testing and should never have been closed, but i've been sitting with my finger up my #$$ for 2 years waiting for a fix.

So, yeah, you get tired of things after some time and I am far from alone in almost all of this, just most others haven't invested so much of their life and have simply decided to walk away. It all boils down to the feeling no one listens or cares basically. Sure, you get more interactions on the forum these days which only took 20 years to come about, there is now more open-ness about what may be coming and the staff individually seem to be great people so nothing bad to say there, that is not the problem, the issue is it still feels like overall many of us are ignored or what we feedback just isn't important if it's not shared by 10,000 other users, something I have seen quoted numerous times about the decisions on why certain features are not carried into V3, because statistically it wasn't important (or phrased as a "priority") initially, something I feel blind users feel great about not having accessibility available in the updated version of KK yet, especially when Native Access forces that update on you if you don't check and are told to update all your software. This is where I do a lot of direct support, asking these users to try and jump through the hoops for support is more frustrating than offering clear and direct solutions.

PoorFellow

As for the V2 versus V3 thn I have this quote for you by resident NKS expert Jestermgee :

Quote Jestermgee , proprietor of FreelanceSoundLabs :

What you highlight here is just one of the problems with V3 over V2. What you need to understand is some users that are like me have been using KK in the same way for 10+ years. A new user who has never used KK or maybe only used it to a basic degree will not experience the issues in the same way but here is a list of just what KK V2 does much better (IMO) than V3, all the bugs, compatibility and VST2/3 mess aside:

• Simpler layout all in a single view! Biggest gripe is now you have tags, presets and the plugin all on separate panels. It feels clunky and unintuitive to drive compared to the nice list on the side of the window you could browse and filter while using the plugin. This is something if you search is echoed by many users on this forum.
• As you mentioned "more is done from the keyboard" but not all of us like switching gaze to the keyboard. If you are like me you have the KB on a pull out draw and often the screen is not pulled out when hunting or just playing sounds. In many cases, I would still use the keyboard browser wheel and browse button to switch presets quickly while using the mouse to click parameters in the plugin at the same time, but I would often do that by feel while watching the KK instance on-screen. This is now no longer possible and the 2 are completely detached so no longer can you see what you do on the keyboard on the computer screen too!
• The browser again, the list of presets is spread across a horizontal column browser now and scrolls sideways. This is not easy to scan fast through files for a certain name or sound type. Also, because these columns are a fixed width the preset names have now truncated/cut off a lot where previously, rarely ever was anything cut short. Some may be bothered more about this than others but every application and windows browser I use is just a single list, simple to scan with the eye.
• The text brightness compared to the background for the preset list is also not as easy to read but that could be different for others, maybe those of us with colour-blindness are more affected.
• The Banks are also heavily truncated and not simple to even see in the whole UI. Additionally, for many libraries there are no sub banks displayed which may be a bug but still yet to even be confirmed by support, just many users. .
• System Efficiency! This may improve but the first thing I looked at when testing was the comparative CPU and RAM demands which I pegged at about 20-30% more than V2. THis was confirmed the resource demands to be higher because of the new UI and I guessed some users who had large sets with lots of instances of KK would likely find their system grinds to a halt. Those reports started coming through and users quickly reverted back to V2. I really valued KK for its efficiency and was a huge promoter around here on how much value it added for such little resources.
• There has been zero new features introduced that users have asked for over the years that could have been super simple and very welcomed (other than resizable GUI which now is not as important given the old side browser and all the tag views is not visible with the plugin. Things like ability to filter OUT a tag for sounds you don't want in a search. Ability to SAVE a filter for simple recall anytime. A damn Random select or ability to sort the list of presets randomly to aid in "finding a gem" of a sound. These are just a few basic things that I recall being asked for way back with the MK1 by others…

I could keep going, but I think you see my point. The depressing thing is almost everything I have listed will not change, that is the way forward for KK and history tells me nothing we users say will make a lick of difference. There are other issues that have caused me dissapointment like a bug several of us reported with many VST3 plugins would not show the GUI in KK V2 in Ableton. This was closed off (incorrectly) without being tested or confirmed and I never even received a note my ticket was closed, I have been using VST2 for most of them still and this issue is STILL present in V3. This was all acknowledged as a failure in the testing and should never have been closed, but i've been sitting with my finger up my #$$ for 2 years waiting for a fix.

So, yeah, you get tired of things after some time and I am far from alone in almost all of this, just most others haven't invested so much of their life and have simply decided to walk away. It all boils down to the feeling no one listens or cares basically. Sure, you get more interactions on the forum these days which only took 20 years to come about, there is now more open-ness about what may be coming and the staff individually seem to be great people so nothing bad to say there, that is not the problem, the issue is it still feels like overall many of us are ignored or what we feedback just isn't important if it's not shared by 10,000 other users, something I have seen quoted numerous times about the decisions on why certain features are not carried into V3, because statistically it wasn't important (or phrased as a "priority") initially, something I feel blind users feel great about not having accessibility available in the updated version of KK yet, especially when Native Access forces that update on you if you don't check and are told to update all your software. This is where I do a lot of direct support, asking these users to try and jump through the hoops for support is more frustrating than offering clear and direct solutions.

DirtyJawa

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/155634#Comment_155634

Thanks so much for sharing this from Jestermcgee. He's been of great support of NKS for a long time. The disconnect between NI and power users like himself is an echo of the disconnect that I've seen between NI and its user-base for the past 10 years. There is constant frustration between Maschine users & NI, Traktor users & NI, and Kontrol users & NI.

I can deal with changes to interface. Seems like the major concerns to me are CPU/memory efficiency, the ease of keyboard split (and general usability) between Kontakt, VST Plugins, and Hardware simultaneously.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad that I'm not overlooking too much else.