More discussions about Apple Silicon

System
System Posts: 44 admin
edited October 22 in Tech Talks
This discussion was created from comments split from: Apple Silicon M1 Compatibility.
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  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert
    edited May 2022
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/16218#Comment_16218

    It is very much frustrating that Apple Silicon native support is prioritized over anything else. Most of NI users do not have AS computer and became victims of Apple terror and mess.

    The worst thing is, that in foreseen future it will repeat again as Apple will be forced to move back to x86 platform. It looks like Apple will not be able to compete with x86 platform. M1 is fine, M2 will be behind x86 and M3 even more behind, I am affraid... x86 platform develops much faster.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert
    edited May 2022

    @ini4

    I'm sorry. I got tired of my x86 sounding like a plane about to takeoff while making music, so I upgraded.

    Maybe in past, maybe still Intel. I have AMD APU Zen7 5700G which is concerning computing power somewhere between M1 and M1Pro. It fits into 15x15x8 cm enclosure and is dead silent (using Nocturna cooler).

    There is already Zen3+ CPU, that is even better (more energy efficient, much better iGPU, a bit more computing power) and at about time M2 comes, Zen4 comes... And aproximately half year before M3 comes, Zen5 comes. Zen5 will have 50-60% computing power more (per core) comparing to Zen3 and double cores (for notebooks), so 3 times more computing power using the same amount of energy (cooling).

    M1 is OK, but it is not worth all the troubles, IMHO. And all the troubles comming, if Apple will not be able to compete with x86 platform....

    I understand Apple users that like M1 comparing to old Intels. Similar effect could be gained just by switching from Intel to AMD and staying at x86.

    Future will tell, which of those two alternative paths would have been better for Apple users.

    Yes, I am an AMD fan. I have been fed up by Intel stagnation in past period to the same extent as Apple users.

  • momos
    momos Member Posts: 24 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/16245#Comment_16245


    Interesting. You already have the M2 and M3 chip and all the new x86 chips to compare performance?

    Did you travel into the future?

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert

    Well, the new x86 chips already physically exist. At least Zen4. And Zen5 will be finalized within months. And AMD informs about its plans and there are also information leaks....

    And concerning M2. There is not to be much improvement in CPU to be expected. It might run a bit faster and few optimizations might be done. GPU improvement is expected. M3 I do not know, but as far as I know it will be just another small improvement on better process.

    Lets wait few months. And we will be able to compare M2 and Zen4.

  • eggpls
    eggpls Member Posts: 15 Member
    edited May 2022
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/16505#Comment_16505

    appreciate the response. I guess my main concern is that the investment in the mac studio is high with only a 14 day return policy and the chances of knowing whether staying in the ecosystem makes sense for me likely won't be resolved in that time frame . The issue is that NI makes up like 90% of my libraries, mainly because I just thought Komplete 13 Ultimate would satisfy nearly all of my needs for the time being and if the support is not going to keep up with other product lines, I may have to shell out more cash for libraries outside the eco that already have support. The KK keyboard just makes working as a plugin for a DAW so much easier for me that it's hard to forego that integration, but at this point it's the only reason I'm using it over any other midi controller.

    In Rosetta, I've experienced a lot of audio cutting out when I playback frozen tracks that have automation on it (most notably from sustain). I've only been able to work around this by bussing to an open audio track and replaying it, but recently when I migrated my projects from an m1 MBP to a mac studio the audio cuts out even for non-frozen tracks. Is this an M1 issue, Monterey, or Logic issue?

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert

    You have to look at it from bright side. You might buy M2, M3 Studio that time, instead of M1 one. Or if real lucky, you will buy x86 Studio, again. ;-)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert

    Let us see in up to 9 years, by your sixties. If Apple does not switch, by accident, back to x86, they will do to something else...

    And let's wait for M2 and Zen4... They are comming soon. And more importantly for M3 and Zen5 in less than two years. If Apple will not be able to keep pace with x86, they will have to switch to something different, be it x86 or something else...

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,322 Guru
    edited May 2022

    With Apple now having full control over both their own silicon and operating system, it is this COMBINATION that will only accelerate the gap in overall user experience of the Apple ecosystem vs the fragmented efforts of alternatives.

    Only hope for alternatives is for them to also form an exclusive HW/SW relationship in a fashion similar to Apple.

    It is obvious and simple to understand.

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 668 Guru

    Microsoft teaming up with Qualcomm (who is working on ARM competitor to Apple’s M1) is much more realistic than Apple going back to x86 and being dependent on Intel (or anyone else, for that matter).

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,030 Expert

    We will see... M2 and mainly M3 will show.... If M2 will be just refreshment of M1 (CPU-wise), it would be hard to believe AS will be able to keep pace with x86. And M3 either confirms that, or makes huge performance leap.

  • Filip Hoško
    Filip Hoško Member Posts: 8 Member
    edited May 2022

    This went off on a different tangent now with the argument about x86 vs Apple Silicon :) Even if the AMD chips would be somehow faster I wonder about the power consumption for that kind of performance. The M1 chips are great since they are performant but don't consume so much power/don't produce so much heat (I have my M1 Mac Mini now for some time and I never heard the fan - is it even there?). How are the x86 based PCs doing in this domain?

    Anyway, I think that NI maybe underestimated the transition to Apple Silicon. They just need to do updates to the codebase and it's taking them more than a year and a half now - you can only wonder if this was a thing of prioritising the tasks or if there was a different reason. At this point we just need to wait and let them do the work.

  • mezzurias
    mezzurias Member Posts: 27 Helper
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/16606#Comment_16606

    Apple doesn't need to outperform Intel or AMD. I'm not sure why you think that's their goal. Right now you can see that Apple can pass down all the RND they did on the M1 chips down to their consumer grade products (the iPad Pro and recently the iPad Air for example). They can't do that with Intel or AMD. They goal is to control their whole stack from the lowliest iPhone up to their most powerful desktop. They can keep passing down the cost of the chip from their most expensive products down to their consumer grade products while they move on the to the next one keeping their production lines always busy. They can't do any of that with AMD or Intel.

    They can build specialty silicon directly onto their chips (their media engines, neural engines). That's not something they can do with AMD or Intel. They can have a consistent release schedule on their time. Something they can't do with AMD or Intel. There are way too many benefits for Apple in moving to their own silicon besides "beating x86".

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