Is it worth purchasing an S88 MK2 now?
Hello all,
I’m looking to upgrade my midi keyboard to something with 88 keys and weighted - the S88 MK2 caught my eye and I’m considering it. However after looking on forums and reviews etc, I’ve seen that it’s no longer supported and people are reporting issues. Is it worth buying now? (The MK3 is out of my budget).
Comments
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Mk2 is still supported, Mk1 is not.
There is probably more issues with Mk3 than with Mk2. Mk3 is still very new, whereas Mk2 is mature product with most (if not all) kinks already ironed out.
However, unless you are on a PC (where compatibility problems are not very common), I would rather invest in Mk3, even if you need to save a bit longer to buy it. Mk3 is THE future.
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I have the S61 MK3.
Great Keyboard for accessing NI ecosystem, But don't get rid of your old keyboard.
You will need it control your DAW, third party VST's, plugins and any other automation outside of NI Wrapper software. I am using a Nektar P1 to control my DAW.
The Kontrol MK3 series of keyboards does not have the ability to midi learn any computer. It is not an actual midi controller. You can not create midi templates and assign knob to parameter in your software.
They say the will fix this problem in an update, But it's been more then half a year since the release date (Sept 12th 2023).
They probably forgot about the issue already of will charge a fee to have the solution to be fixed.
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Really appreciate the comments both - thank you for your help!
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I concur with what Maciej Repetowski wrote above.
With respect to Richard Vetro , referring to the S61 MK3, writing that : "It is not an actual midi controller." then that is completely false. The Kontrol keyboards are in fact midi controllers (Please refer to pages 72 to 74 , 10. MIDI Mode, in the manual !) but also a lot more than just that ! N.I. calls it a "smart MIDI keyboard controller" (As seen in the name of the web page for the S-Series MK3 keyboards !) Also , the S-Series MK3 is not only Midi 1.0 controllers but also Midi 2.0 and Polyphonic 'aftertouch' compatible with MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) plugins as it is mentioned in the FAQ ! However it is correct that some features might not be implemented yet and some of it appears as if it is delayed !. Never the less then I am rather sure that N.I. is going to deliver on their promises with respect to the functionality of the S-Series Mk3 keyboards !
As for your original question about the S88 MK2 keyboard (Is it worth buying now?) , then that question of course depends entirely on you and your expectations. The S88 MK2 keyboard is not a poorer keyboard today than it was 6 months ago, it will still have the same advantages as it originally had, but time flies, so when you compare and if your expectations has changed then you might not have your expectations met by a keyboard that is one generation old , but only you knows if that is so for you !
If you are satisfied with what the MK2 has to offer and don't want 'all the new stuff and features' then indeed why not get a MK2 , but if you are going to spend an eternity in regrets that you didn't get this or that then you ought to do what is suggested by Maciej above : save a little longer ! Also , at last sale then the S-Series Mk3 keyboards came bundled with Komplete Bundle software (at some extra cost) , so there is that also to consider (there most likely will be more sales this year also !, the first I suspect will be in a couple of months maybe)..
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The worst purchase for my studio was and is the Kontrol S88 MKII. The key stopped working after two sessions, some keys lost their dynamics. This is a disgraceful NI product.
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That you have got a lemon, doesn’t mean that all of them are lemon. That’s what warranty is for, mate.
I’ve had Mk2 for a few years and it was amazing. I have Mk3 now and the hardware is even more amazing. So, no lemon 🍋
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The Kontrol MK3 series of keyboards does not have the ability to midi learn
anycomputerThis is not correct, MIDI learn works fine. What templates will add is the ability to customise your own CC assignments for the 2x8 knobs and buttons available for mapping, as well as change MIDI channel etc. This means people will be able to create templates for particular hardware that requires very specific CC, but that is not MIDI learn. MIDI learn enables any control to be mapped to the existing CC params, whether in the default template or, when templates can be added, a custom one.
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Specific CCs is one thing, what I want is an option for inc/dec (relative values), instead of fixed 0-127, as it is now.
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Yes definitely!
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I bought an S88mkIII and gave my Mk2 to a friend who is using it quite well to do a film score right now. Loves it. Still super usable, not going to die all of a sudden, and he doesn't care about poly-AT. I have both an S61mkIII and S61mkII — using the MK3 with Logic, using the Mk2 for a stand up synth station with Windows. Still works flawlessly.
Never had any issues with any of my NI keyboards going back to original Mk1-49. Only issue I had with the new mk3 was faulty pitch/mod on the 88mk3; which ironically had exact same issue with new Waldorf Quantum Mk2. I think there is an issue in the German factory with this stuff where tolerances are not quite where they need to be. Or the packaging is not how it should be for shipping or something. But other tham modwheel scraping issue — all the NI keyboards have been great.
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Do not buy the MK3, you will regret it. The MK2 is far superior and now appropriately priced for what it does on the used market. The MK2 is capable of transmitting as many midi CC messages as you need it to learn via its “midi template functionality.” This allows you to map and label controls for any plug-in, not just NI plug-ins. The MK3 does not do this, and it is a great disadvantage. NI has a very poor track record of adding functionality to products they have already released, so the lack creditability when they say they will correct for this (already they have punted the fix several times from the initial date of December 2023).
Some other areas the MK3 is terrible - 1) track switching in DAW control mode requires you to move one at a time through each track with a rotary knob push, which renders it pretty useless. The MK2 allows using individual buttons above each track to navigate; 2) The MK3 parameter labels are in some crazy font and the keyboard truncates the words to basically jibberish, rendering the screen pretty useless. The MK2 shows the full label and shrinks down the font to accommodate, which is pretty awesome; 3) the new NKS2 mappings do not allow you to alter the control assignments to individual pages and uses the same number of button presses as going page by page as on the MK2, so that feature is unusable. NI must have known this imo because they included a “classic” mode for users that need the flexibility and would have been very upset if the new mode was all that was offered; 4) the MK3 cannot control instruments in Kontakt individually because lack of “midi mode” means you cannot transmit cc messages on different channels (honestly this is insane for a keyboard this expensive). The MK2 can be used with Kontakt to do this and create ensembles of up to 16 instruments; 5) no Maschine integration on the MK3 vs. wonderful integration on the MK2. I understand many don’t use Maschine (and I was once one of these people), but take it from me this is real downgrade as Maschine is very powerful if only dated and stagnant like most other NI products at this point.
To sum it up, the MK3 is a terrible product. It is only useful to users that have narrow use cases. This seems to be a vocal majority in the NI community, but the fact remains the Kontrol MK3 is not a competitive offering for the money NI is asking. The average life cycle of their keyboards is about 5 years, so I expect the MK3 will limp along with little to no updates from NI until they release something more well thought out or abandon hardware entirely. I would not believe for one minute that NI is going to sink more development costs into improving this product because my guess is it didn’t sell well. NI will probably argue this, but the release went so poorly that I can’t imagine there are a lot in circulation. Anyways, buyer beware.2 -
All good stuff, mate. You've just forgotten to add "In my opinion" at the beginning. 😋
Mk3 is a product in active development (although slow one), Mk2 is discontinued or will be, once NI runs out of stock. Do your homework, read manuals, check forum, etc. If Mk3 is not for you, fair enough.
I've been using it with Logic Pro for a while and it's close to perfection (for me). After MIDI templates and Play Assist are done in hardware - I don't need anything else, if there's further development, it will be just added value for me.
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MK2 is not discontinued and will not be per NI as there is a far greater number of users on MK2 vs. MK3. MK2 is objectively better value for money because it has more features (by far). I don’t really think opinions come into play. It’s great you don’t need NI to update or add any functionality to the MK3 because they aren’t going to.
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Mk2 is better for you, It’s still just your opinion. We shall see how long Mk2 will still be available.
As for Mk3, I need what was promised (MIDI Templates and Play Assist on hardware). Any other updates would be just an added bonus.
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I don’t subscribe to multiple truths. Better means of higher quality. A quality is a distinguishing feature. The MK2 has more distinguishing features than the MK3 and is therefore objectively better. Not objectively better TO or FOR ME (which are qualified oxymorons), just better period.
If you buy an Akai, Roland, or Korg product, it will contain the history of that device with little to no interruption in its feature set. A Roland MC groove box contains a feature set that can be traced back to the 80s. Korg workstations are the same story. We never hear Korg or Roland talk about “minimalist design” because its a laughable term that means terrible product. Lower quality. Less features. No one at NI is Steve Jobs, and NI did not drop an IPOD-esque product in the MK3. The keyboard barely does anything and does nothing well or interesting.
Native Instruments is the only Company that completely guts features on newer versions of its products to the point this practice is a defining part of the Company’s identity. It is not worthy of defense. The only thing worse than stripping down a highly anticipated refresh to make more money for a private equity firm is gaslighting customers about those features not being widely used. I don’t buy any of it. Let’s revisit this if ever they actually release midi templates on this device because the conversation is so old at this point I am struggling to understand anyone’s optimism they will ever be released.
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