maschine plus - memory expansion: SD-Card vs USB-SSD

Hi! The instructions for the Maschine plus state that the memory can be expanded up to 1 TB using an SD card. Would it also be possible to connect an SSD drive via USB to expand the memory? And which of the two variants would be faster in terms of memory access and shorter latencies?

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Rico010

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/28348/maschine-plus-memory-expansion-sd-card-vs-usb-ssd

I just bought a Kingston Canvas Go Plus 512gb. It has a very good read/write speed which I guess exceeds M+ card reader specs.

However, I believe SSD can be faster. The SD Card is just more convenient for my case. As I am using both USBs of M+ alteady (keyboard + multitimbral module)

ozon

NI content, like Expansions, is always installed on the SD card and cannot be installed on an external USB drive.

iNate

Yea. I'd use External SSD - probably just a USB 3.0 Thumb Drive that I back up - for projects and SD Card for Content and Expansions.

ozon

Oh, I forgot to mention:

The Maschine directory is also on the SD card and cannot be moved. And you cannot select where to store Projects, Groups, Sounds and Recordings. There‘s also no way to navigate the directory structure of the SD card or external USB drive so everything must be properly tagged to appear in the Browser as User content.

Therefore, all you can put on a USB drive is libraries of samples and probably preset files for synths and effects which you prepared on the desktop.

An external USB drive is of very limited use and NI‘s advertising regarding that feature is pretty deceiving.

H1i

@Rico010 @ozon @iNate

Ok big thanks so far! I had actually assumed that the instruments and all sounds are stored in the internal flash memory. That's what I thought when I formatted the SD card yesterday...^^ Fortunately I was able to restore my own projects. I have now inserted a 128GB UHS-II SD card and reinstalled everything overnight. The 64GB that came with it was too small because I bought Komplete 14 Ultimate on Black Friday.

Then I'll say goodbye to the idea of connecting a USB hard drive and buy a large and fast SD card instead. As I assume that UHS-II is not supported and I will need the card for my digital camera again, I will buy a fast UHS-I card. According to the instructions, the SD card should be "A1", but I can find many cards with the specification "A2", so that shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Quote from the instructions:

"What specifications should the SD card have?

The SD card included in MASCHINE+ has the following specifications:

UHS-I, U3, Native I. Class 10, V30. A1.

This is the recommended specification. Faster cards should also work without problems. The SD card slot has the standard size."

ozon

@H1i be sure to get a premium brand high quality full size SD (not micro!) card from a reputable reseller.

My experience with this model is good:

SanDisk Extreme PRO 256GB SDXC UHS-I V30 U3 (200 MB/s)

It's fast, reliable and not overly expensive and also available as 512GB and 1TB. Be aware that some forum users reported problems with 1TB cards, but that was a while back and might have been due to the cards themselves.

D-One

UHS-II is supposed to be retro-compatible so it might work but even if it does you won't be able to take advantage of it's superior speed on the M+ so It's a bit of a waste of $, if your camera supports it then using it on it is a good idea. Or, if you use a computer often to backup your SD or move data around often + have a UHS-II reader that could be beneficial too.

The M+ SD speed should be capped at a theoretical max of 100 MB/s, I cannot verify this but 99% sure.

On the topic of eternal SSD's (or thumb/flash drives) they are only worth it if you have tons of custom USER content like 3rd party kits, samples or loops.

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144789#Comment_144789

UHS-II will work in UHS-I devices, but it's a waste to pay more for a higher rated card that your machine cannot fully utilize. I find most smart devices can't maintain UHS-II speeds unless they are very upper-mid-range or high end, anyways, like DSLRs and Cinema Cameras... or USB 3.2 or TB3/4 Docks with UHS-II/III SD Card Slots in them.

Generally, fare better with the slots built directly into PCs or Laptops.

For Maschine+, I would just get a 256-512GB UHS-I HIGH ENDURANCE SD Card for Expansions and Samples and then get one of those barely visible Samsung USB 3.x Thumb Drives for projects. That way, I have to worry a little less about card failures and can easily transfer things between the PC and Maschine+ without constantly removing the SD Card.

The spring loading mechanism in the device is also a wear component (though I would still pop it out and in once a month just to make sure it doesn't seize - especially if you live in a humid environment).

ozon

@iNate how can you use an SSD for your Projects?

H1i

@Rico010 @D-One @iNate

I think I'll go for the SanDisk Extreme PRO 256GB SDXC UHS-I V30 U3 (200 MB/s). The price of 40 euros is still acceptable. Even if the machine really should only support up to 100MBs, because such slower cards aren't much cheaper either. I will also get a Samsung USB stick, thanks for the tip! But then I'll also need a hub, as both USB ports might be occupied. I will then use an active hub. Do I need to consider any other criteria for the hub?

Today I tried to connect a synthesiser (IK Uno Synth Pro). When I supply the synth with power from the Maschine+ via USB cable, a loud, nasty beeping noise comes from the Maschine. So that's not ideal, and I then used the power supply unit supplied with the IK Uno. I then connected IK to the machine via USB cable, and in the second attempt with the two 6.3mm line out cables. Unfortunately I don't have a Midi 5 port cable. Unfortunately, I couldn't elicit any sounds from the IK Uno. However, the machine did show the IK Uno on the display as a midi device.

Is it even possible to send the IK Uno Snyth into the Maschine+? Or could I only use it to play the Maschine's internal sounds? I tried the same with the Akai APC Key 25. This was also displayed on the diplay of the Maschine+, and it could then play the sounds that were on the Maschine+ pads, quite practical in keyboard mode. However, the IK Uno synth has very powerful sounds of its own, could these be looped through to the Maschine? Or could you only sample them?

Rico010

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/145024#Comment_145024

I use an Mc-101 as multi-timbral synth. Connected through USB for power. Audio comes in to M+ through two line-in cables (stereo).

Never heard a beep. Maybe that’s because it needs more power than M+ can do.

Does the sound really come out of M+? Not the Uno itself?

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144985#Comment_144985

I meant a thumb drive, but USB Drives also do work with Maschine+, AFAIR.

ozon

@iNate how can you use any USB drive for your Projects? Did you ever do that, or are you proposing a theory?

Psyearth5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144642#Comment_144642

It should be working like anything related to USB storage and it's used for transferring files from and to a connected devices but in this case it's 😐 not

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/145661#Comment_145661

I'm speaking mostly about keeping Projects and Sample Content (like Expansions) on separate storage volumes so you don't end up with a worn out and unusable SD Card for tons of Project-related writes to it, and having to redownload or retransfer hundreds of GBs of Expansions back onto the device.

SD Cards last forever when you just copy bulk data to them and use them predominantly for reading. They wear out quickly when you're constantly writing to them. It has always been this way.

It's why I'd prefer if they would just put an M.2 SATA or NVMe SD Card slot in these devices (if they can't fit a 2.5" SATA Drive Bay).

Personally, I really, really dislike having to use SD cards in that way.

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