native instruments host integration agent documentation

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gurenchan
gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member

Hi


Does that host integration agent have documentation? Can we expand or use it?


Whats my use case? I am using the M32 with FL Studio.


I've tried using the default settings for FL Studio but it's very tedious to get things done.

If Its possible to have some documentation about that API then I could make something that just works better for FL Studio.


I've tried everything out there and they are either buggy, causing my projects to crash and lose all my work or the official documentation then I could attempt to fix some of the issues that I am facing.

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  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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    Looking around it seems like this feature isn't really well supported, lots of projects started and in a lot of unfinished state.


    I am not sure if NI is willing to provide some documentation on this to allow better integration between their hardware; M32 in my case.


    Hopefully someone can respond to this with some info.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,552 mod
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    I do not work for N.I. and do not speak for N.I. but from where I stand then N.I. products are not open source and it appears as if N.I. are only interested in 'sharing' that kind of information with entities that they are working with and who also signs a NDA.

    Yes ,there are e.g. an old project over here : https://github.com/hobyst/flmidi-nihia

    But since your entry point appear to be FL Studio , then there are a project for FL Studio here which appear as very much alive https://github.com/soundwrightpro/FRUITY-NILA (Not all browsers and settings and plugins may let you open the link)

  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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    I've looked at those projects but the FRUITY NILA project crashes my program all the time causing me to lose work.


    I cannot deal with that anymore.


    Using the recommended setup for the M32, the keys work in FL Studio but none of the transport controls or menu buttons work.


    Even a small script that could read and map those to cc would be great but I don't want to hack away at N.I. software if it's against their TOS or customs.


    That's why I post here on the community to ask for some feedback from N.I.


    It would be helpful to know if it's something that can be done.

    "it's" being transport controls for their buttons on the M32.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,656 Expert
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    Well, Komplete Kontrol has been out 10 years and if nothing has been done before now, not much chance of a change.

    FL Studio is likely one of the least demanded DAWs for support out of most of them and from what I have heard, it is also not the most open for developers to integrate to a deep degree, that is evident by the lack of hardware designed to work with it.

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 556 Pro
    edited March 23
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    As I understand it, thing like external transport controls have an accepted standard for how they can universally work with external devices. That standard has also been recently updated to include more elements than just transport and recording controls such as channel volumes, navigation and such. Not all DAWs or versions of DAWs comply with that new improved standard in full yet, but most of the major ones do nowadays. But a lot of smaller market and free ones don't generally. I'm not sure where FL Studio stands in that situation and if they do comply on what versions? You may be better off asking the question on a FL Studio or general DAW forum.

  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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    The novation FL key or FL key mini says different.


    As well as the fact that many people have tried to hack away at N.I. implementation over the years, it's something N.I. specific.


    If they have some secret sauce that they are unable or unwilling to share, that's acceptable I would like to know.


    If not, some documentation could really bring new life into their hardware.


    I honestly don't want 2 midi keyboards, that's the reason I started an M32.


    Seeing what novation has done too their stock keyboard and rebrand it FL key just shows it's not a midi issue, N.I. is doing something with their hardware that is more than midi.


    It could be that when they started they needed custom software for limited software support for all the platforms at the time but that stuff turns into tech debt that's a burden to carry around.

  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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    Your correct the implementation is open, why does N.I. show how their hardware speak to their software?


    That's literally what I'm asking for. The documentation on his N.I. communicate and if it's standard or not.


    The fact that they run system services in windows and daemons on Mac implies that they are using something non standard.

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 556 Pro
    edited March 23
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    The fact that something like transport controls might be an "open" standard between different vendors, doesn't necessarily say anything about how it gets implemented. I can't even say I know for certain that it's a MIDI standard, or even a MIDI 2 standard, or even some form of networked remote implementation like CORBA. I've never personally read the spec.

    Beyond that I'm sure NI isn't very open to exposing their internal interfaces that are used to send, receive, or process the results of an internal and proprietary process. Ultimately an "open" standard is really just a definition of the layer that allows two disparate things interoperate. The implementation can certainly be closed for many reasons.

    NI does expose certain operations through a scripting interface, but it's highly likely that's converted to some lower level interactions not accessible to scripting to make things work consistently in their eco system.

  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,552 mod
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    Quote : "and daemons on Mac i"

    That's a misunderstanding , the Daemon is part of their DRM scheme , I am rather sure that the DAW integration comes from other software !

  • gurenchan
    gurenchan Member Posts: 18 Member
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    You're rather sure. Do you have access to some documentation from N.I.

    Are you speaking for yourself or N.I.


    I can be honest that I do not know and I am not sure, that's why I'm asking.

    It would be a lot simpler and straightforward to get correct answers and avoid all the pontificating.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,552 mod
    edited March 23
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    As my signature says then "I do not work for Native Instruments and any opinions expressed and advice given is my own personal opinions and advice !" .

    I certainly don't want to be 'pontificating' so I will leave the debate here for now !

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 556 Pro
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    I'm speaking about open standards as defined in the industry by governing committees such as SQL, TCP/IP, MIDI, whichever one you choose to name. They all expose interfaces, but not internal implementations that change from vendor to vendor. In the case of NI they choose to expose a set of open standards, but that's just for them and their products, and it only includes what they choose to include.

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