Straylight/Pharlight/Ashlight/Arkhis, etc. - sometimes samples don't load???

Allen Simpson · 2022-04-21T22:05:54+00:00

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[BTW, if this question belongs somewhere else, please help me find where to put it. :) ]

I use Straylight, Pharlight, Ashlight, Arkhis in Pro Tools 2021.12.0. I load them using Kontakt 6.7.0. Suppose I write a midi part, save the session and close Pro Tools. Every now and then, I reopen a session, and Kontakt loads, and I can see Straylight (for example, but it happens occasionally with any of them) within the Kontakt instance, but the *samples* themselves are not loaded. The Straylight interface is just empty. The cool orange photo is there, and I can see the name of the part that should have loaded (like "Lush Meadows" for example), but under GRAIN and SAMPLE, it's all just blank. Nothing. Then I go to the pulldown and try to select Lush Meadows again, but nothing happens. Won't load. (And it has happened with various "performance" names, not just Lush Meadows. I'm just using that one as an example.)

However, if I create a NEW Straylight within the same Kontakt instance, the new Straylight has no problem loading Lush Meadows, etc. and its samples. But obviously I've now lost any changes I may have made to the parameters in the previous instance.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas whey this might be happening?

Pro Tools 2021.12.0, Kontakt 6.7.0

Straylight 1.5.0, Pharlight 1.0.0, Ashlight 1.0.1, Arkhis 1.0.0

iMac 4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, OS 10.15.7

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Allen Simpson

Thanks for checking in. To be honest, that project went on hiatus, and we haven't come back yet, so I've been away from my DAW for a while. But I should be diving back in within the next several weeks. I'll try to circle back after I've had a chance to see if the issue pops up again. Hopefully, it's gone! Thanks again for all the help and suggestions! :)

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Kaiwan_NI

Hi @Allen Simpson from the description it sounds like you might run into the same issue as this post here. Can you double check if the plug-in paths in Pro Tools are correct just in case?

Allen Simpson

Thanks for the response. I read that thread and watched the video, but I'm not sure whether it applies to me.

I'm using Kontakt 6.7.0 within Pro Tools 2021.12.0, not Abelton, and I'm on a Mac, not Windows. I'll attach a picture of my Native Access preferences pane. Mine doesn't have those VST location sections (presumably because my plugins are AAX?).

Also, just to clarify, it's not that the plugins don't ever work or that the samples never load. This problem is intermittent. Usually, when I load them the FIRST time in a session, they load fine. I play around with them, record a MIDI track with them, change their parameters, etc. All is fine. I save the session and then quit. But then, later, when I REOPEN the session, sometimes (but not all the time), an instance of Straylight (or Pharlight, or Ashlight, etc.) has nothing loaded in it. The Straylight appears within Kontakt with its orange jpg background, etc, and the correct "patch name" shows up, but there are no samples and no parameters, etc. It won't even let me reload the samples for that patch within that instance. It's like it's just broken and empty.

I have to create an entirely new Straylight instance, which then usually loads fine. But if I didn't happen to save the changes I made to the Straylight parameters as an actual new instrument, which is kind of a pain to do every time I make even an slight adjustment to a parameter, then anything new I load doesn't have the changes I may have made. Obviously, a new instance only has the out-of-the-box presets.

Any other thoughts?

It doesn't feel like it's a pathway issue or else the second instance wouldn't find the samples either, right?

EvilDragon

AAX uses one fixed, not user adjustable path for plugins (like VST3), so that's definitely not the issue here.

Kaiwan_NI

@Allen Simpson if it's intermittent then it's indeed probably not the file path issue. Did you get any of these error messages when Kontakt instances failed to load?

KONTAKT Error Message: "The state of some Kontakt instances cannot be recalled correctly"

KONTAKT Error Message: "Your version of Kontakt is too old to load this file."

There was a similar case where a user eventually found a rogue installed version on their audio drive which was obviously confusing their DAW. In that case they solved it by deleting it and reinstalling Kontakt. Can you double-check in your drive just in case if there's more than one version installed? 🤔

Allen Simpson

That's an interesting idea. I've never received any error messages though. FWIW, I've had a situation in the past where I've moved my samples and had to relink them within Kontakt, so I'm familiar with having to tell it where to find things when it can't. However, this is kind of a different situation, it seems. When it happens, there just aren't any samples there. It's like it can't find them, but it doesn't know it can't find them, so it just loads the plugin without samples. It never throws an error, so I don't know how to tell it to look for the samples... since it doesn't ever give me the window with the browser-lookup buttons.

I've looked for the rogue installation like you said, but I only have one Kontakt application on my drive, and it's 6.7.1. However, I do have several old Kontakt 5 folders in Application Support. I also have a file named com.native-instruments.Kontakt 5.plist in preferences. Do you think I should delete those?

EvilDragon

Kontakt 5 is a separate install that can coexist with Kontakt 6, so you don't really need to remove it I don't think.

Kaiwan_NI

Hi @Jeremy_NI Have you heard of this issue before?

Allen Simpson

I have more pieces to the puzzle, but I'm no closer to understanding it.

Just happened again, and I was able to take a screenshot this time. Attached is a pic of the Straylight within Kontakt. You'll see what I mean: It's just totally empty. But here's what's interesting. If I go up to the dropdown Straylight patch menu within Kontakt, scroll to Pads and select Lush Meadows again, it doesn't load. Stays empty. Same with any other patch within that instance of Straylight. No matter which one I pick, it just stays empty looking like in the pic and remains unplayable as an instrument.

However...

If I select an instrument again (either the same one or a different one), then save & close the session, and then reopen... the Straylight instrument then will load and is suddenly playable. ???!!!

This isn't a great solution though because I will have lost any changes to the instrument/patch that I'd previously made since what is now loading is just the out-of-the-box preset. So it still appears that the only way to keep this from being a problem is to save any changes I make every single time (no matter how trivial) as a brand new new instrument. So that way, if/when this happens, I can reload the saved instrument.

Like I said, this is not a fun solution and seems totally unnecessary. But I wanted to give you the added info in case that helps any of you help me figure out what the heck is going on. :)

Any thoughts?

Jeremy_NI

@Allen Simpson Your library browser looks also it's missing something. Is it the same when you open Kontakt in standalone ? Make sure to give Full Disk Access to Pro Tools and Kontakt: How to Enable Full Disk Access on macOS

Where are these libraries installed ? On an external hard drive ? What format is the hard drive ?

EvilDragon

Nope that Libraries browser is fine. Those are old Kompakt libraries (from Kontakt 1 times!), they don't have any graphics.

If Straylight opens like this, it might be that audio engine is not running.

Jeremy_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/15273#Comment_15273

Haha! I had no idea! It's before my time!

Allen Simpson

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/15261#Comment_15261

As @EvilDragon mentioned, those libraries are just old, so they're actually working properly. However, I did notice that I had not granted Full Disk Access in System Preferences. Worth noting that I've been using Kontakt libraries without a problem for quite a few years without noticing this, so I'd be surprised if this were the problem, but I toggled it on just now just to see. Fingers crossed.

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/15273#Comment_15273

How could I confirm whether the audio engine is running? What would be other symptoms of it not running? Because when this problem occurs, I can load other instances of Straylight (or even other Kontakt instruments from other libraries), and they all work fine. (And audio tracks play fine.) But the instrument that originally stopped working and appears empty stays that way and can't be reloaded. Seems like if the audio engine weren't running then it would affect more than just one instrument in one plugin.

Jeremy_NI

Any positive effects of that Full Disk Access setting ?

Allen Simpson

Thanks for checking! It hasn't happened in the last day or two, but it's hard to say if it's fixed yet since this is one of those frustrating, intermittent issues. It doesn't happen with every instance or in every session or even necessarily every time within a problem session. (Definitely my favorite kind of computer problem.)

I guess I won't really know if it's fixed for sure until it just doesn't happen for a while. Even then, I may never know what really fixed it since I've already tried several things. Who knows which variable or combination of things it was, you know?

Am I actually the first person ever to mention experiencing this? I feel like a pioneer! Hahaha...

Jeremy_NI

Hey Allen, well, as far as I know the exact same issue has not been reported. I would think that it has something to do with permissions on your computer, so the Full Disk Access thing ensures you get proper permissions for Pro Tools and Kontakt. To be honest I'm not 100% sure, I'm not that deep in Kontakt. Let me know if the issue appears again, I'll then create a ticket and forward it to a Kontakt specialist that can have a deeper look on your issue.

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