Is KK Software less important than Maschine to NI?

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14759#Comment_14759

It's those two large color screens that doom the product from more rapid evolution. They are the wet paint that trap the cornered floor painter.

nightjar

And if that is too vague:

Maschine and KK hardware devices that have such large displays create a least common denominator that the entire software environment of Maschine/KK must conform to.

And the limitations and complexity of this approach are huge drag on progress. To the point of being unsustainable in the market.

It's only a matter of time before this flawed approach gets hustled out the Kore-i-door.

The A series keyboard was the result of voices within NI seeing the problem years ago.. but it was too soon to fully enact any new path that would disrupt the old approach. The scenario had to play out due to the cacophony of opinions of where the future was heading.

But now it's much more clear.

ozon

@nightjar uttered:

Maschine and KK hardware devices that have such large displays create a least common denominator that the entire software environment of Maschine/KK must conform to.

And your solution therefore is?

Kaldosh

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14432#Comment_14432

i'd add audio input and FX version😁

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14820#Comment_14820

Separate the higher-level "brains" and "display" functions from hardware controllers. Accomplish those needs solely by either computer or "smart device".

It's the rapid evolution of smart devices that has changed the landscape. NI could not have accurately predicted the trajectory of smart devices and how they have enabled a different approach. No one is to blame. It's just how things go.

But NI must adapt to this reality or competitive solutions will crush them.

And they can offer great new solutions by focusing on the optimization of the overall user experience and hardware devices that embrace refinement of motor skills and how to interact with articulations and dynamic parameters.

ozon

@nightjar proposed:

Separate the higher-level "brains" and "display" functions from hardware controllers.

As already mentioned, neither KK keyboards nor Maschine controllers have any brains.

And I quite dislike the idea of having to look at the computer screen in order to see the parameter values I want to change. Its a usability nightmare. Knobs need labels and gauges. Generic encoders must be labelled dynamically. The currently available technology for that is using displays. Either one for all encoders, or one for each.

The current hardware is not the limiting factor at all, in fact it has loads of untouched potential. And probably most feature requests could be satisfied with the available brainless options.

nightjar

Dynamic labels and gauges are not the same problem as a full blown display...

And the limits of the current hardware is not fully inherent in its physical existence, the limits are abstract and instead arise from the market forces created by alternative approaches and the speed at which these other approaches will deliver desired features.

If time and money didn't exist, all would be fine with the development of current hardware.

ozon

That’s your personal opinion.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14861#Comment_14861

Actually my last statement is not my personal opinion... it was hyperbole. If there truly were no time or money, I do not think all would be fine with the development of the current NI hardware.

Hard to play or create music without the existence of time.

Ha... of course all being said here by any of us is opinion.

JesterMgee

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14816#Comment_14816

I think you may be diving a little deep in the assumptions of what may be happening.

The A series keyboard was the result of voices within NI seeing the problem years ago.

I am pretty sure the A series was purely a way to have a cheaper option available to get Komplete in to beginners hands, yes the screens were omitted for this but purely to save on cost of manufacture as were the LEDs. Not sure how a TFT dynamic display holds anything back in development, it can easily be built into a single library that handles the comms to the device and no different than having MCU support for a product (which is basically what it is with an extra layer for browsing) and MCU support held back nothing in the industry.

But NI must adapt to this reality or competitive solutions will crush them.

What competitive solutions? Not everything out there needs to be an android/iOS/Embedded touchscreen with intelligence device. Currently there is nothing out there that does what Kompletye Kontrol can do with the ease of use it offers. Akai Advance is the closest mark but that is not as nice to use IMO.

If on-board "smart features" were developed for a standalone model (like the M+) I would see nothing really that needs changing in the software. That is the point of software, you can change things to suit so a new version could have a new set of features available to it just like when the keyboard went from MK1 to MK2 with screens there were some new features available.

All I want to see is simple quality of life improvements to the KK software, nothing major, nothing "ground breaking", 90% of KK is great as it is. Just improve and refine what is there, we have a good working wheel, no need to try and invent a new one.

nightjar

The existence of a large screens creates a need for them to have purpose/function. And developing for this external purpose/function in concert with the bigger purpose/function of KK/Maschine software is a stumbling block.

The tail is wagging the dog.

Case in point... the terrible GUI design of KK browsing on computer.

JesterMgee

Case in point... the terrible GUI design of KK browsing on computer.

Subjective.

Personally, I find the browsing perfectly fine apart from some filtering options. I am sure there are aspects you do not like, but again that is subject to personal opinion. If it's a case of resolution, that can easily be catered for.

The existence of a large screens creates a need for them to have purpose/function.

Well, of course, they need to display information. The same control and navigation can also be done on an MK1 or A/M series keyboard, none of which has large screens so there is nothing tying the GUI of the screen to the keyboards other than displaying the thumbs.

Been reading your replies but apart from broad brush statements, I am not sure what your gripes specifically are? "Terrible GUI", what is terrible about it and what is the proposed solution?

nightjar

Left Vertical column of Types/Characters/Results...

Absolutely horrible usability.

myalteredsoul

I wish there was a standalone kk app that sits between the hardware and your daw to make kk keyboards function with the same level of ableton compatibility as the Novation SL mk3. I don’t like using kk as a plugin container. Just let me see the names of my 16 ableton macros and have them automatically mapped as I switch instruments/racks.

JesterMgee

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/14957#Comment_14957

Again, subjective, personally I have no issue is it is vertical or horizontal, it's a gripe more than a usability problem IMO.